Ronald Koeman discussion

[Khalekan]

I really miss the heart in the mouth moments when we dicked around with it when being pressed to within 10 yards of our own goal for no apparent reason.

Yip....me too

I hope big Ash does a Cruyff turn in the Park End six yard box this Saturday....just to keep us on our toes

 

[Khalekan]

Still feel a little bit strange about the whole Koeman thing.

Under Martinez I think one of the things I liked about him and that contributed to me supporting him longer than most was that it felt like a long-term plan. I got the impression that between him and the club, we were building towards the future and that Martinez would be around to see the fruits of his labour.

With Koeman - this all feels very short term. The signings he has made have been experienced players and he doesn't have a track record of hanging around anywhere for too long, so it feels to me like we will inevitably be starting a whole new cycle again within 2 years or so.

Now, like most Evertonians, what I'm most bothered about is winning games, so if he carries on the same way he has started, I'll probably just push the suspicion that it's all very short term to the back of my mind, but because he's not the easiest guy to warm to (maybe this bit is just me?) and because I doubt this is all going to last too long, I'm finding it hard to get too attached to him like I did with Moyes and Martinez in their early days.

Having said that, you can't argue with what he has done so far. I find quite interesting is that Koeman is managing to play with two genuine wingers and still seem quite solid, whereas whenever we did this under Martinez, we struggled.

I think, although I'm not sure yet, that this is down to two things. Number one, his use of our full backs. Under Martinez both full backs pushed on when we had the ball - they created the width and the wingers were often tucked inside (one of the reasons I think Martinez preferred having a central player playing from wide most of the time, despite buying loads of wingers). Koeman doesn't seem to place this emphasis on our full backs - they're allowed to go forward, but only one at a time and they don't join the attack with anywhere near the frequency that they did under Martinez, meaning our centre backs aren't pulled out wide when we are countered.

Secondly, wherever possible we seem to be trying to play the ball forward quickly - the slower build up under Martinez almost forced us to commit full backs forward to open up the opposition. Happening far less at the moment.

My slight concern (the pessimist in me) is that teams will spot our emphasis on getting the ball forward quickly and will just get men behind the ball. Last night was a good example - Sunderland played like the away team for large parts of the game until we scored. We opened the scoring because they were forced to commit men forward for their own corner and we countered them and scored. After that they had to come out a bit and we picked them off. I still think we lack that bit of guile to open a team up who are sat in, expecting this to be a problem at home particularly - but, Koeman has had an answer for everything else so far, so we'll see.

If it hadn't been for a very disappointing end to the window, you'd say things have gone perfectly up to now. I'm never comfortable when it's all going smoothly...

I agree with you about Koeman being short term.

Three years max, I would say.

And my fervent wish is that Unsie is being groomed as his successor and that he will take the reins for a decade after that

 

[Goat]

I agree with you about Koeman being short term.

Three years max, I would say.

And my fervent wish is that Unsie is being groomed as his successor and that he will take the reins for a decade after that

If we appointed Unsworth I think I would cry.

 

[Kiwi]

The best thing he's done so far is bring in Williams and Gueye and got that pairing going with Jags and Barry.
Super strong experienced spine.

 

[Khalekan]

If we appointed Unsworth I think I would cry.

Tears of joy?

 

[deipnosophist]

Can someone tell me where this photo was taken?

The shape of the table they're sat at should provide a clue...

 

[deipnosophist]

Still feel a little bit strange about the whole Koeman thing.

Under Martinez I think one of the things I liked about him and that contributed to me supporting him longer than most was that it felt like a long-term plan. I got the impression that between him and the club, we were building towards the future and that Martinez would be around to see the fruits of his labour.

With Koeman - this all feels very short term. The signings he has made have been experienced players and he doesn't have a track record of hanging around anywhere for too long, so it feels to me like we will inevitably be starting a whole new cycle again within 2 years or so.

Now, like most Evertonians, what I'm most bothered about is winning games, so if he carries on the same way he has started, I'll probably just push the suspicion that it's all very short term to the back of my mind, but because he's not the easiest guy to warm to (maybe this bit is just me?) and because I doubt this is all going to last too long, I'm finding it hard to get too attached to him like I did with Moyes and Martinez in their early days.

Having said that, you can't argue with what he has done so far. I find quite interesting is that Koeman is managing to play with two genuine wingers and still seem quite solid, whereas whenever we did this under Martinez, we struggled.

I think, although I'm not sure yet, that this is down to two things. Number one, his use of our full backs. Under Martinez both full backs pushed on when we had the ball - they created the width and the wingers were often tucked inside (one of the reasons I think Martinez preferred having a central player playing from wide most of the time, despite buying loads of wingers). Koeman doesn't seem to place this emphasis on our full backs - they're allowed to go forward, but only one at a time and they don't join the attack with anywhere near the frequency that they did under Martinez, meaning our centre backs aren't pulled out wide when we are countered.

Secondly, wherever possible we seem to be trying to play the ball forward quickly - the slower build up under Martinez almost forced us to commit full backs forward to open up the opposition. Happening far less at the moment.

My slight concern (the pessimist in me) is that teams will spot our emphasis on getting the ball forward quickly and will just get men behind the ball. Last night was a good example - Sunderland played like the away team for large parts of the game until we scored. We opened the scoring because they were forced to commit men forward for their own corner and we countered them and scored. After that they had to come out a bit and we picked them off. I still think we lack that bit of guile to open a team up who are sat in, expecting this to be a problem at home particularly - but, Koeman has had an answer for everything else so far, so we'll see.

If it hadn't been for a very disappointing end to the window, you'd say things have gone perfectly up to now. I'm never comfortable when it's all going smoothly...

good post mate.
With Martinez though, he simply isn't a PL standard manager so any long term plans he may have at/for any PL club are somewhat moot since they won't be a PL club very long under his management.

 

[Eggs]

I agree with you about Koeman being short term.

Three years max, I would say.

And my fervent wish is that Unsie is being groomed as his successor and that he will take the reins for a decade after that

....I think we have to be careful about being too romantic over such appointments. Colin Harvey was a brilliant coach, won an FA Youth Cup before being a great 1st team assistant but wasn't the right man for the hot seat. Regardless, I hope it's a bit premature to be talking about a successor.

 

[Coffee and TV]

I agree with you about Koeman being short term.

Three years max, I would say.

And my fervent wish is that Unsie is being groomed as his successor and that he will take the reins for a decade after that

Unsy better get out and get some experience as manager if he wants to manage us.

 

[neil999]

....I think we have to be careful about being too romantic over such appointments. Colin Harvey was a brilliant coach, won an FA Youth Cup before being a great 1st team assistant but wasn't the right man for the hot seat. Regardless, I hope it's a bit premature to be talking about a successor.

always said its impossible to know until they actually manage someone, shame we cant send coaches on loan the same you can youth players!

 

[Eggs]

always said its impossible to know until they actually manage someone, shame we cant send coaches on loan the same you can youth players!

...I think that's why they usually have to prove themselves at a lower level. Sometimes top players move instantly into top managerial posts but even with the likes of Giggs United were reluctant to give him the job. Managers with a good track record are lower risk but even then there is little guarantee of success.

 

[Toffeelover]

I agree with you about Koeman being short term.

Three years max, I would say.

And my fervent wish is that Unsie is being groomed as his successor and that he will take the reins for a decade after that

Could be, when he was coming always talking of a 3 year project ostensibly for the club and team but in reality could it be for him lining up PSG, Barca, Real or that German lot?

 

[Khalekan]

Could be, when he was coming always talking of a 3 year project ostensibly for the club and team but in reality could it be for him lining up PSG, Barca, Real or that German lot?

I hope he just concentrates on doing well with us and seeing what the future brings for him.

IMO Moyes's last couple of years with us was, for him, all about keeping it safe so as not to undermine his chances of getting the United job.

 

[allen]

Still feel a little bit strange about the whole Koeman thing.

Under Martinez I think one of the things I liked about him and that contributed to me supporting him longer than most was that it felt like a long-term plan. I got the impression that between him and the club, we were building towards the future and that Martinez would be around to see the fruits of his labour.

With Koeman - this all feels very short term. The signings he has made have been experienced players and he doesn't have a track record of hanging around anywhere for too long, so it feels to me like we will inevitably be starting a whole new cycle again within 2 years or so.

Now, like most Evertonians, what I'm most bothered about is winning games, so if he carries on the same way he has started, I'll probably just push the suspicion that it's all very short term to the back of my mind, but because he's not the easiest guy to warm to (maybe this bit is just me?) and because I doubt this is all going to last too long, I'm finding it hard to get too attached to him like I did with Moyes and Martinez in their early days.

Having said that, you can't argue with what he has done so far. I find quite interesting is that Koeman is managing to play with two genuine wingers and still seem quite solid, whereas whenever we did this under Martinez, we struggled.

I think, although I'm not sure yet, that this is down to two things. Number one, his use of our full backs. Under Martinez both full backs pushed on when we had the ball - they created the width and the wingers were often tucked inside (one of the reasons I think Martinez preferred having a central player playing from wide most of the time, despite buying loads of wingers). Koeman doesn't seem to place this emphasis on our full backs - they're allowed to go forward, but only one at a time and they don't join the attack with anywhere near the frequency that they did under Martinez, meaning our centre backs aren't pulled out wide when we are countered.

Secondly, wherever possible we seem to be trying to play the ball forward quickly - the slower build up under Martinez almost forced us to commit full backs forward to open up the opposition. Happening far less at the moment.

My slight concern (the pessimist in me) is that teams will spot our emphasis on getting the ball forward quickly and will just get men behind the ball. Last night was a good example - Sunderland played like the away team for large parts of the game until we scored. We opened the scoring because they were forced to commit men forward for their own corner and we countered them and scored. After that they had to come out a bit and we picked them off. I still think we lack that bit of guile to open a team up who are sat in, expecting this to be a problem at home particularly - but, Koeman has had an answer for everything else so far, so we'll see.

If it hadn't been for a very disappointing end to the window, you'd say things have gone perfectly up to now. I'm never comfortable when it's all going smoothly...

I'm delighted at the amount of focus Koeman has put on the short-term. He's not talking about a nebulous 3-year plan. He wants success now - this season - and he's not making excuses for not delivering it.

My personal hope is that Walsh is working with the club on the longer-term strategy. Koeman is there to get results - immediately.

 

[mightymoyes]

from football 365:


Koeman feel the noise…it’s well deserved…
Date published: Thursday 15th September 2016 7:56

Against Tottenham, Ronald Koeman was missing Romelu Lukaku, Seamus Coleman and new signing Ashley Williams and yet somehow – largely thanks to the ridiculously impressive Idrissa Gueye – Everton held on for a point against Tottenham.
Against West Brom, it took 38 minutes for Koeman to sacrifice James McCarthy and his original 3-5-2 formation, changing the game with the introduction of the now-fit Lukaku.
Against Stoke, he integrated new signings Williams and Yannick Bolasie and produced a dominant performance not reflected in the 1-0 scoreline.
Against Sunderland, he took off the wasteful Ross Barkley after 45 frustrating minutes and brought on Gerard Deulofeu; Lukaku then scored three times in 11 minutes.
Proactive, decisive, adaptable. You cannot imagine Koeman watching Wayne Rooney drop deeper and deeper before throwing up his hands and saying ‘what can I do?’. He would change something, make a decision, manage. After all, that should be the least anybody should expect from a manager; the clue is in the job title.
Throw in some sensible words to the complaining and previously over-indulged Barkley (“You can’t point your finger at somebody else”), first-team opportunities for teenagers Mason Holgate and Tom Davies and the rejuvenation of Gareth Barry against all expectations, and there is an awful lot to admire about the Dutchman’s first months at Everton.
‘What is Gareth Barry’s Everton role under Ronald Koeman?’ asked the Liverpool Echo in July, worried about the likely arrival of Gueye; three weeks later they were carrying quotes from a smitten Koeman saying that Barry was one of the cleverest players he had ever managed. We may never know whether Koeman initially saw the 35-year-old Barry as integral to his Everton side, but having seen him in partnership with Gueye when his hand was forced by injuries, he was happy to mount this particular horse and get comfortable.
Right now the results are outstanding. Everton have ten points from their first four games for the first time since 2006/07, when Lee Carsley, Phil Neville, Mikel Arteta and Leon Osman played in the most central of midfields. He has somehow managed to square the circle, increasing both pass completion and tackle rates; the pragmatic David Moyes and idealistic Roberto Martinez would have him burned as a witch.
There will be darker days, largely due to an over-reliance on Lukaku that means they are only one injury away from Enner Valencia or Arouna Kone, but Everton fans can face those darker days with an optimism that had ebbed away under Martinez. As I wrote in January, ‘it takes a rare and excellent manager to find a way to solve problems of his own making’, and Koeman did exactly that time and again at Southampton. While others floundered or simply preached “more work on the training ground”, he looked for solutions and found solutions in changed formations, fringe players, more direct tactics.
We have already seen a snapshot of that flexibility at Everton and it has been equally as impressive as Guardiola’s transformation of Manchester City. Jurgen and Jose might make more headlines but Ronald and Pep are quietly doing a rather excellent job.
Sarah Winterburn