Ronald Koeman discussion

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bicycleheader said:
That's fair enough, but I think that first part is where we would differ on our expectations of the type of new manager needed at the time. I wanted a better version of Martinez. Continued focus on attack but in a more organised manner and without the stubborness.

I didn't think it was such a huge job to tighten us up a bit and win more games that we had to go and get a manager who could do that and not much more. A safeish choice in a way.

So, would you slightly agree then with my opinion of him from day one that he will leave having given us not much more than that minimum level and it may be the next guy that takes advantage of what seems like a more solid club and, hopefully, structure?

I'm just a bit bored in a way with this, as I see it, interim period, and on top that I worry that even after this their idea of the boss to take us up a level will be way off.
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This is difficult to do though. Unless you have world class forwards then if you want to play an attacking game you need to go a bit gung ho. This is what Liverpool fans are struggling with currently. Klopp can't tighten up because if he did he'd no longer have the system that makes his front three look good. Let's be honest one of them is a reject from Chelsea so part of what makes them effective going forward is exactly because their midfielders and full backs plough forward too.

It was the same with Martinez. We'd be dropping points in 3-3s or 3-4d the as soon as he tried to tighten up we'd get 0-0s or 1-0 losses. There's no substitute for quality at both ends. We haven't got it at either so it really limits what type of football we can play that will be effective.
 

A negative coach conceding more goals away from home than gung-ho Bobby tells its own story.

I can handle getting beat by the top teams if they've earned it, but the tactics, team selections and perfomances under Koeman are inexcuseable.
 
Saint Domingo said:
This is difficult to do though. Unless you have world class forwards then if you want to play an attacking game you need to go a bit gung ho. This is what Liverpool fans are struggling with currently. Klopp can't tighten up because if he did he'd no longer have the system that makes his front three look good. Let's be honest one of them is a reject from Chelsea so part of what makes them effective going forward is exactly because their midfielders and full backs plough forward too.

It was the same with Martinez. We'd be dropping points in 3-3s or 3-4d the as soon as he tried to tighten up we'd get 0-0s or 1-0 losses. There's no substitute for quality at both ends. We haven't got it at either so it really limits what type of football we can play that will be effective.
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true, but if we are going to be just bopping around 7th place and hoping for success, I would prefer we would do it with a more attack minded manager who may get the team to really click long enough for us to grab top 4 or win a trophy (or just win well in a bloody derby) The safe manager has his flaws, the risk taker too, but I prefer what I would be watching with a risk taker and see it as a better punt for success and good times.
 

willo30 said:
Show the home games. You'd see a massive shift there.

Koeman trumps our worst manager in recent history in most departments.
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We play half of our games away from home, he is picking up less wins and points, he is scoring less goals and, most remarkably, conceding more than a rightly pilloried manager. He has four games at home now to figure out what the hell he is doing or we are screwed.
 
Khalekan said:
I am looking at their away results, Danny and they have emerged with their scalps intact at harder venues than The Park this season already :(

But we are getting ahead of ourselves here.

I want to see Bournemouth despatched with first before thinking about Burnley.
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Bournemouth eh?. Now there's a 6 pointer for you!!
 
BlueToff said:
I see Koeman as the man to get us back to the minimum level we should be achieving (top 7) after two crap years under a manager who although I liked him, was stubborn to the point of delusion.

While Koeman is no doubt a big stubborn moon-headed freak, I see him as being more adaptable. However, he needs to prove himself all over again with our fanbase now.

Okay, if we lose to the massive teams, we know where we stand. But we have to beat the smaller teams to give us an even-footing next time the big games come around.

Hopefully, he can get us to a final as well - or a very good cup run. Winning the thing is all that counts like.
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The way we are set up to play at the moment we have zero chance of doing well in the cups. Atalanta monstered us, Atalanta. Unless we start to take games on we cannot and will not be successful in any format of competition. We sit off and sit off and sit off until the opposition inevitably scores then we fall apart. That isn't about personnel that is coaching, plain and simple. The board dropped a bollock, no doubt, but what is happening on the pitch is 100% Koeman, and it's a horror show.
 
Saint Domingo said:
This is difficult to do though. Unless you have world class forwards then if you want to play an attacking game you need to go a bit gung ho. This is what Liverpool fans are struggling with currently. Klopp can't tighten up because if he did he'd no longer have the system that makes his front three look good. Let's be honest one of them is a reject from Chelsea so part of what makes them effective going forward is exactly because their midfielders and full backs plough forward too.

It was the same with Martinez. We'd be dropping points in 3-3s or 3-4d the as soon as he tried to tighten up we'd get 0-0s or 1-0 losses. There's no substitute for quality at both ends. We haven't got it at either so it really limits what type of football we can play that will be effective.
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I agree to a point, but I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say you need 'world class' players to do it.

I think the squad we had when Koeman took over was good enough for 7th/8th place. With £200m of investment (a different argument, I know) I think we could easily have brought in sufficient quality to master an attacking game while still being relatively sound at the back. I'm not saying we'd have been challenging Chelsea, but executing things the way we did in Martinez's first season could have become the norm.
 

No easy fixtures in this league, especially with our lack of fire power. The players must be low on confidence, particularly after playing generally well on Sunday but getting stuffed. We need the first goal against Bournemouth, because the pressure thereafter will be immense.
 
davids said:
It took a season to find out Martinez,seems history does repeat itself.
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How is history repeating itself? When was the last time we had a run of fixtures like the last 4?
If these results had been scattered around the season and we were beating everyone else then we wouldn't see the fume we seeing now.

We've been beaten by 4 sides clearly better than us. The last game gave me hope with the way we played and he is trying different things to get a goal with his late subs at MU but it's not his fault Williams drops a clanger and they also get a dubious penalty.

We play how we played Sunday in the next 3 then 9 points are nailed on. Probably see us in the top 7.
 
I am just still absolutely fuming at his comments, he took us back to the worst excesses of the Moyes years in an instant, and I am one who can see a lot of positives from that time. In fact, a penny for Moyes' thoughts right now on being able to turnover a squad so rapidly, for apparently no end result, or so Koeman would have us believe.

Koeman is being paid a millionaires ransom in elite sport and the best he can do is say that we will do well to standstill. Football, or any other sport is not all science and performance metrics. The day all the old-fashioned qualities like effort and passion go out of the window is the day I am finished with football, and Everton.

I feel like going as far as to say he should reflect on those comments with considerable embarrassment if he believes he can bring nothing to the table as Everton manager.

Those comments sting, they hurt, and I believe they set the tone for performances on the pitch, both past, and to come.

It's part of life, in all its facets, to sometimes put a brave face on things and say the right thing, white lies and all of that. We all do it in our family lives and at work. There was absolutely no need to go off on that tangent and he went down massively in my eyes when I heard what he said.
 

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