Ronald Koeman discussion

[mkrudden]

Dont understand that post mate. Are you saying it makes so much sense it can't be true? Or are you saying he is over simplifying things and is off the mark?. Or something else?

Yeah agreed, I wasn't very clear.

When you have 5-6 players like sandro, klassen, sigurdsson, Keane, pickford all arriving and regarded as the best or close to from their respective teams, arriving into a team which was far better than the teams they came from in terms of other players already there, then the failure of pretty much them all to perform comes down to the manager.

Simple as that really, change manager, and guarantee that at least some would start showing their quality.

To simply say that "they were ace at their respective teams so the fact they aren't here is because of the manager" is just wrong imo. Let's look at each:

Sig: Had a team literally built round him. At Swansea where, and I mean no disrespect, the pressure to deliver anything other than solid performances and dangerous set pieces is non-existent, especially since the Martinez and Rodgers days.

Keane: Came from a Sean Dyche team. 4-4-2, full backs far from adventurous and who tuck in tight with the CBs. Basically, Keane was protected a lot last season. This season was always going to be a massive learning curve. With our full backs bombing on at times, one simple long pass down a channel is going to mean he's defending in wide areas far more often. He's also playing in Europe for the first time against more clever, cultured footballers.

Sandro: From a league famous for its more technical, less aggressive approach. There are loads of footballers who struggle to find their feet when they arrive. He's also 21/22 isn't he? Moved to a new country, new language. It was always going to take time.

Klaassen: Much like Sandro. New league, new intensity to deal with.

Pickford: Gone from having to make 340 shots per game to 1 or 2. Got an ever-shifting defence in front of him.

Throw in to the mix that none of these players have ever played with each other before - an obvious point but it is't one or two, it's a whole raft of new players - and you get a situation where fluidity of our game is going to be hard to come by.

Koeman is right, he needs training sessions. I don't buy this "we need one win to kick start our season". We need more games, more sessions and slowly we will see these players finding their feet.

 

[Lanolin]

The same players were well-drilled and coached last year mate.

He does have a lack of plan or system. I've said that. And that's unforgivable.

But the players aren't up to scratch either

Were they though? Serious question.

I'm not being revisionist here, but other than a period between January and March when we just leathered teams at home for fun, we were awful last year too. We had a run of about 10 games without a win, got knocked out of 2 cups at home to inferior opposition, and didn't win an away game for the last 5 months of the season. Look back at what was being said this time last year and it's not too dissimilar to what we're saying now. We had a couple of good months on the back of Lukaku's incredible form but we didn't look like a particularly good side last year in my opinion.

 

[GwladysPhil]

lol

All I went on about when all the talk was him coming here.

Also, see Benfica.

Reminded me a lot of when michael laudrup was flavour of the month at Swansea.

I was on holiday when he came in and all i got from other fans was "he's a good manager" "he'll do well with you".

And I have to admit I was pretty confused where his good management reputation came from.

I trusted the new ownership must have seen something to headhunt and pay him an inflated wage.

 

[Lanolin]

Yeah agreed, I wasn't very clear.


To simply say that "they were ace at their respective teams so the fact they aren't here is because of the manager" is just wrong imo. Let's look at each:

Sig: Had a team literally built round him. At Swansea where, and I mean no disrespect, the pressure to deliver anything other than solid performances and dangerous set pieces is non-existent, especially since the Martinez and Rodgers days.

Keane: Came from a Sean Dyche team. 4-4-2, full backs far from adventurous and who tuck in tight with the CBs. Basically, Keane was protected a lot last season. This season was always going to be a massive learning curve. With our full backs bombing on at times, one simple long pass down a channel is going to mean he's defending in wide areas far more often. He's also playing in Europe for the first time against more clever, cultured footballers.

Sandro: From a league famous for its more technical, less aggressive approach. There are loads of footballers who struggle to find their feet when they arrive. He's also 21/22 isn't he? Moved to a new country, new language. It was always going to take time.

Klaassen: Much like Sandro. New league, new intensity to deal with.

Pickford: Gone from having to make 340 shots per game to 1 or 2. Got an ever-shifting defence in front of him.

Throw in to the mix that none of these players have ever played with each other before - an obvious point but it is't one or two, it's a whole raft of new players - and you get a situation where fluidity of our game is going to be hard to come by.

Koeman is right, he needs training sessions. I don't buy this "we need one win to kick start our season". We need more games, more sessions and slowly we will see these players finding their feet.

Some good points there mate, particularly on Keane I think.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Why was he rated as a good manager? He's not really won anything and inherited Pocetino's Southampton team.

I think you will find Liverpool inherited most of Pochettinos team.

 

[DrEFC]

Dreadful planning by koeman then. Introduce the new players slowly into a settled, organised battling team.

 

[BigBlueConk]

I hope Ron has a shave before his press conference. Looking a bit scruffy last night.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Can't wait for the echo journos at the presser to ask him how he managed to get the team to perform so admirably in an unfortunate 2-1 defeat to one of Europe's "elite"

 

[GwladysBlue]

I hope Ron has a shave before his press conference. Looking a bit scruffy last night.

Fully expect him to turn up like this.

 

[larbert toffee]

Did anyone else notice that last night he looked on the touchline like he'd been sleeping rough for a week, he is usually in his suit looking the part, last night he was in his tracksuit, unshaven and arguing every paltry decision.

He is a guy under pressure and he's not handling it well, I like many of you I'm sure am getting more embarrassed with every game, I am now expecting to lose every time we set foot on the pitch, the time has now come to end his pain.

 

[Axlswhk]

There is no need to panic, I think our squad is not as bad as some might think.

Firstly, it's proven last night that we must play wingers in front of supporting fullback. Both winger must be willing to run and dribble. Lookman and Mirallas must start, occasionally rotating with bolosie(when fit) and vlasic.

Secondly, we must only deploy a single number 10 at all times. Judging from the way we play now, Barkley or siggy. Rooney and klassen should not be involve unless we are having a 2 goal lead.

Thirdly, Kenny and Baines should be our first choice fullback for every game. Europa is finished as far as I'm concern, so there's no need to rotate.

Forth, Niasse should start ahead of DCL and stick him upfront as an out and put target man. DCL lacks positional sense and finishing.

It's not difficult to achieve, we only need a manager that is willing to make these changes and we'll see pace trickery and fluid attacking play without overhauling the whole team.

Koeman is preventing all these from happening, there's no reason to keep him anymore.

 

[bluestevon]

Yeah agreed, I wasn't very clear.


To simply say that "they were ace at their respective teams so the fact they aren't here is because of the manager" is just wrong imo. Let's look at each:

Sig: Had a team literally built round him. At Swansea where, and I mean no disrespect, the pressure to deliver anything other than solid performances and dangerous set pieces is non-existent, especially since the Martinez and Rodgers days.

Keane: Came from a Sean Dyche team. 4-4-2, full backs far from adventurous and who tuck in tight with the CBs. Basically, Keane was protected a lot last season. This season was always going to be a massive learning curve. With our full backs bombing on at times, one simple long pass down a channel is going to mean he's defending in wide areas far more often. He's also playing in Europe for the first time against more clever, cultured footballers.

Sandro: From a league famous for its more technical, less aggressive approach. There are loads of footballers who struggle to find their feet when they arrive. He's also 21/22 isn't he? Moved to a new country, new language. It was always going to take time.

Klaassen: Much like Sandro. New league, new intensity to deal with.

Pickford: Gone from having to make 340 shots per game to 1 or 2. Got an ever-shifting defence in front of him.

Throw in to the mix that none of these players have ever played with each other before - an obvious point but it is't one or two, it's a whole raft of new players - and you get a situation where fluidity of our game is going to be hard to come by.

Koeman is right, he needs training sessions. I don't buy this "we need one win to kick start our season". We need more games, more sessions and slowly we will see these players finding their feet.

Whilst all true mate, effectively every new player struggling is very very rare, the manager is playing the majority out of position, constantly in and out and changing who their playing next too as well.

An already difficult situation of players finding their form has been massively compounded by the managers choices and decisions.

Time to bin bag him

 

[Fansince1988]

I've been out nearly midday, come home and he's still had his job. How long is it going to take, Koemans management skills may be awful but the way our owners deal with things are even worse, can't they see we are a sinking ship.

 

[everton2004]

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yeah agreed, I wasn't very clear.


To simply say that "they were ace at their respective teams so the fact they aren't here is because of the manager" is just wrong imo. Let's look at each:

Sig: Had a team literally built round him. At Swansea where, and I mean no disrespect, the pressure to deliver anything other than solid performances and dangerous set pieces is non-existent, especially since the Martinez and Rodgers days.

Keane: Came from a Sean Dyche team. 4-4-2, full backs far from adventurous and who tuck in tight with the CBs. Basically, Keane was protected a lot last season. This season was always going to be a massive learning curve. With our full backs bombing on at times, one simple long pass down a channel is going to mean he's defending in wide areas far more often. He's also playing in Europe for the first time against more clever, cultured footballers.

Sandro: From a league famous for its more technical, less aggressive approach. There are loads of footballers who struggle to find their feet when they arrive. He's also 21/22 isn't he? Moved to a new country, new language. It was always going to take time.

Klaassen: Much like Sandro. New league, new intensity to deal with.

Pickford: Gone from having to make 340 shots per game to 1 or 2. Got an ever-shifting defence in front of him.

Throw in to the mix that none of these players have ever played with each other before - an obvious point but it is't one or two, it's a whole raft of new players - and you get a situation where fluidity of our game is going to be hard to come by.

Koeman is right, he needs training sessions. I don't buy this "we need one win to kick start our season". We need more games, more sessions and slowly we will see these players finding their feet.

I find it hard to argue with what you say there mate.

However, the problem we have is that, whilst these new players are finding their feet and learning "on the go", the teams performance is getting gradually worse (and seeing as we started poorly that is actually a "massive" problem) and our season is in danger of being over by Halloween. Established players are now also losing form/confidence and this is also spreading to the younger players too. The manager has fallen out with some key players and appears to have lost the backing of other players too. Admittedly the effort shown in last nights game was a step forward but no different to the second half against United in the semi final IMO.

The whole scenario is similar to the previous managers last 3 months in charge which is still very fresh in the fans memory. We all believe he was sacked too late which is why, IMO, most of us are calling for Koemans head NOW.

So I don't think the manager is going to get the time he needs for the new players to gel together. Even if he does, by the time the team starts performing we'll be out of all competitions and will probably, at best, finish lower mid table.

Do you think he should be given the time to turn it around?