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Ronald Koeman discussion

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catcherintherye said:
I think you are right to call our professionalism. Lets be frank there's a reason why Barry's performances didn't dip and haven't dip in his entire career regardless of the manager. He's a real credit to the profession and it's easy to see why Martinez made him his first proper signing.

There are 2 issues with Koeman and time. The first will be whether he wants to stay here beyond 2 years, the second will be whether he has the skillset to. He seems to like moving upwards and is very ambitious. I'm not sure why he would show us any more loyalty than teams in his own country who he has won Trophies with. That being said if we get things right off the pitch and if the supposed investment in players we have been suggested to materialises over the next two years outside of the marquee jobs there will be few better places to manage than here.

The question about his skillset remains open though. In their own ways both Martinez and Moyes were "longer term" managers who were both trying to build over a longer period. Koeman hasn't done that yet. That's not to say he can't but he hasn't done so yet. I also think if we stagnate or plateaux at 5-8th as we did under Moyes I don't think people will be satisfied with that.

We'll see I am very happy with him as manager now. I think both parties have gone into it with their eyes open. We've given him a better chance of getting top 4 football and a trophy and he is the same. I'm not sure either party in their heads have looked beyond it being a two year fix. Having said that Everton is a special club and does grip people and there is a chance Koeman could be hooked. I do think his character suits Evertonians and scousers very well and we have a similar ethos. We will see.
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Things took a real turn for the worst for the Arsenal game in March. It was so bad after that, short of Martinez' sacking it probably warranted the squad being called together and being given a bollocking by the Chairman/CEO, only we did not and do not have the people in place for such a thing.

Martinez as manager had ultimate responsibility for team affairs, but it would be fair comment in my view to suggest that that vast majority of the squad simply downed tools in a completely unacceptable way towards the latter part of last season, even if the desired end result was achieved with Martinez sacking.
 
catcherintherye said:
I think you are right to call our professionalism. Lets be frank there's a reason why Barry's performances didn't dip and haven't dip in his entire career regardless of the manager. He's a real credit to the profession and it's easy to see why Martinez made him his first proper signing.

There are 2 issues with Koeman and time. The first will be whether he wants to stay here beyond 2 years, the second will be whether he has the skillset to. He seems to like moving upwards and is very ambitious. I'm not sure why he would show us any more loyalty than teams in his own country who he has won Trophies with. That being said if we get things right off the pitch and if the supposed investment in players we have been suggested to materialises over the next two years outside of the marquee jobs there will be few better places to manage than here.

The question about his skillset remains open though. In their own ways both Martinez and Moyes were "longer term" managers who were both trying to build over a longer period. Koeman hasn't done that yet. That's not to say he can't but he hasn't done so yet. I also think if we stagnate or plateaux at 5-8th as we did under Moyes I don't think people will be satisfied with that.

We'll see I am very happy with him as manager now. I think both parties have gone into it with their eyes open. We've given him a better chance of getting top 4 football and a trophy and he is the same. I'm not sure either party in their heads have looked beyond it being a two year fix. Having said that Everton is a special club and does grip people and there is a chance Koeman could be hooked. I do think his character suits Evertonians and scousers very well and we have a similar ethos. We will see.
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If he spent 3 seasons at Ajax and 1 season with PSV and Feyenoord (clubs he'd identify with as 'his own' given his success there as a player) it's doubtful he'll be around here much longer than 2/3 seasons - especially given that he wants to manage in the CL and that, in all likelihood - will be away from Everton.

I think because he's been out of our attention until he cropped up at S'ton we tend to think of him as a new boss. But he's been in the game almost 17 years as a manager. Most managers during a period like that usually have one club they've spent a lot more time at than 2/3 years, but not Koeman. Of course, he's on a massive wage here so perhaps anything other than a CL elite club coming knocking will probably detain him longer here.
 
brieverton said:
Things took a real turn for the worst for the Arsenal game in March. It was so bad after that, short of Martinez' sacking it probably warranted the squad being called together and being given a bollocking by the Chairman/CEO, only we did not and do not have the people in place for such a thing.

Martinez as manager had ultimate responsibility for team affairs, but it would be fair comment in my view to suggest that that vast majority of the squad simply downed tools in a completely unacceptable way towards the latter part of last season, even if the desired end result was achieved with Martinez sacking.
Click to expand...


That can never be right, ever. No circumstances justify it. That effectively robs supporters and is an insult to every Evertonian past and present. It's why I want certain players at the heart of that rebellion out of this club asap. It's just a pity Koeman seems to be leaning heavily on older senior pros responsible for it in his early period here. Hopefully he's eventually as ruthless with them as he was with Osman and Hibbert.
 
Kev The Rat said:
Dave you have to remember that most of these players are young people still in their twenties (Barry a notable exception), are doing a job like anyone else is doing a job and will benefit from clear leadership and instructions, particularly in a team sport where motivation and organisation are paramount. If timekeeping, training and discipline have slipped then are very much part of what a manager should be able to enforce at a club. The likes of Ferguson certainly had the 'fear factor' amongst the players - didn't do him any harm.
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Sorry, but what we heard from Barry was stomach churning and it wasn't confined to younger players either. There was no excuse for it. It's basic patterns of professionalism that Barry underlined which were being withheld by certain players. They know the drill by heart. If they needed to be taken by the hand and forced into continuing them when things were bad then I'd say they aren't very good professionals.

There's a really dark core to that squad which I'm convinced someone like Koeman will sniff out and eliminate over time.
 
davek said:
That can never be right, ever. No circumstances justify it. That effectively robs supporters and is an insult to every Evertonian past and present. It's why I want certain players at the heart of that rebellion out of this club asap. It's just a pity Koeman seems to be leaning heavily on older senior pros responsible for it in his early period here. Hopefully he's eventually as ruthless with them as he was with Osman and Hibbert.
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I agree, and perhaps I should have said "their" (the majority of the squad) apparent wishes to get him out, though he undoubtedly needed replacing at the end.

We have a quite small core of good players IMO - in the next 2 seasons we need to see a lot of players being shipped out, included therein will be a lot of those players whose attitude was quite frankly a disgrace at times last year. It's up to the board to support Koeman to get replacements at the required level of quality, in over the same period of time.
 

davek said:
There's a really dark core to that squad which I'm convinced someone like Koeman will sniff out and eliminate over time.
Click to expand...

ryan-gosling-laughing-gif.gif
 


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