Ronald Koeman discussion

[hktoffee]

• Koeman has won 13 points from his first five Premier League games in charge of Everton - previous manager Roberto Martinez won 12 points from his final 13 PL games at the club.

This told you how useless the fraud was. If he is still here we will be fighting with Sunderland for the 15th place trophy.

 

[Dirty Dutch]

...Yep. He signed him in his first season there, but Tadic was benched a lot and disgruntled.

Tadic was only benched because he wasnt performing for a long time just like mane who couldnt score for about 12 games. At the end of the season they both played everything.

 

[madden95]

Think moshiri has done really well he got everything he wanted managerial wise, koeman was his first option paid near 7 million for him and 10 million to get rid of martinez, paid for walsh, stadium plans look well underway, we didnt need loads of signings are squad was already strong, clearly we made efforts to sign players!!

 

[MikeH72]

You were fulsome in your praise of Martinez after a 0-0 draw at Cardiff, yet this guy gives us our best start in almost 40 years and he only gets a 4/10, to think it was on 6 months ago you said

'God bless you Roberto Martinez'

After a 3-1 win at Villa (terrible version of Villa)

Yet 4/10?

Laughable, it's also quite interesting that on Saturday after a 3-1 victory over Boro, you managed 1 post in this thread all night, yet you've been on the rampage for days after his first defeat, waiting to pounce, I said straight away that it was your time and to embrace it, you told me to 'pack it in' looks like I was right and you simply couldn't wait to dig your claws in, fortunately I doubt anyone will take it too seriously.

What's it like hoping Everton lose so you can vent your spleen? I know your likely answer will be that I did it with El Pricko, but it wouldn't be true as I enjoyed every victory under RM, no matter how rare. I may have even started a thread on it, yet you have nothing good to say about Everton when they win and seem to revel in the bad times.

Odd odd behaviour. But different strokes for different folks, I hope we put in a full 90 minute performance at Bournemouth and have a nice and comfortable win. You may even raise your score to 4.25/10 although I doubt you'll even post.




Unless we lose of course.....

Remember when we beat Sunderland at a canter but the only topic worth discussing was Koeman bullying Barkley?

 

[davek]

Tadic was only benched because he wasnt performing for a long time just like mane who couldnt score for about 12 games. At the end of the season they both played everything.

I think it's pretty much accepted currency that he alienated a few players at S'ton with the way he treated them. Mane and Tadic in particular appear to have been at loggerheads with him.

He's an abrasive character. It goes with the territory. If all is going well players will put up with it. If things are going poorly they wont.

 

[MikeH72]

What we really need lads, is a manager who has a wet fart of a personality and will bow down to player power, that has always shown to be successful in football.

 

[Dirty Dutch]

I think it's pretty much accepted currency that he alienated a few players at S'ton with the way he treated them. Mane and Tadic in particular appear to have been at loggerheads with him.

He's an abrasive character. It goes with the territory. If all is going well players will put up with it. If things are going poorly they wont.

Accepted by who?? When he was at southampton every southampton fan thought he was the best manager of the world, nobody had complaints with him and suddenly when he's gone the same people said he had some issues with players. I don't buy that. If mane didnt like him why would he reccomended Gueye to join Everton?? And why would he say in a interview last week that Koeman was a verry good manager who was loved by the whole club??Same with Tadic, he played really bad for half a season so it was verry normal that he ended up as a sub before he forced his way back to the team.

Same with Ross, he needs to improve and if he can't handle that than he will never be a top player. Guardiola is exactly the same in that area. If you don't perform or don't do the things he want he doesnt need you. Thats how things go at the top level.

 

[efcfanwirral]

Accepted by who?? When he was at southampton every southampton fan thought he was the best manager of the world, nobody had complaints with him and suddenly when he's gone the same people said he had some issues with players. I don't buy that. If mane didnt like him why would he reccomended Gueye to join Everton?? And why would he say in a interview last week that Koeman was a verry good manager who was loved by the whole club??Same with Tadic, he played really bad for half a season so it was verry normal that he ended up as a sub before he forced his way back to the team.

Same with Ross, he needs to improve and if he can't handle that than he will never be a top player. Guardiola is exactly the same in that area. If you don't perform or don't do the things he want he doesnt need you. Thats how things go at the top level.

Exactly and the attitude of a smaller time manager is how people like tony hibbert has the club's top european appearance record and only gets replaced by accident....

 

[catcherintherye]

I think it's pretty much accepted currency that he alienated a few players at S'ton with the way he treated them. Mane and Tadic in particular appear to have been at loggerheads with him.

He's an abrasive character. It goes with the territory. If all is going well players will put up with it. If things are going poorly they wont.

I think that's true. I'm not sure there's much of an argument on that. The nature of the debate ought to be did we require that sort of abrasive manager? Or should/can some players be immune from it?

When you read Barry's interview recently about last season you do get the picture of a group of players who had let the manager down. While Barry accepts some responsibility I highly doubt he did and suspect he is one of the very few who can hold his head up high. (He is probably the only one who had a good season from start to finish last year). Time keeping, preparation, training, discipline all seemed to go out of the window. It was a telling interview.

I imagine Moshiri walked in and quite early got a picture of what was going wrong. While Kenwright eulogised a proper businessman could see things were out of control. I do wonder if Koeman has been brought in specifically with the M.O of putting some discipline back into this squad?

We know that very early on, Moshiri liked Koeman and likewise Koeman liked Moshiri. Given Koeman's character I doubt he sugarcoated anything and probably said I'f he was the manager he would give them a rocket.

Anyway I think that's central to his message and in all honesty I think it was essential for us. What we saw from Southampton was, even when players left he was very adept at finding new ones to come in.

My issue with this isn't whether it is the right thing now or indeed his desire not to make anyone immune (I think they will all benefit form a bit of discipline). However it is how he evolves this style. He hasn't stayed anywhere longer than 3 years and there is a shelf life for that management style. People (and footballers) will work hard and knuckle down for 6-12 months but eventually they need a bit of praise and acknowledgement they have got achieved something. Expected people to always work harder with no end goal is divisive.

What Koeman is good at, is in a crisis getting quick results and steadying the ship. His biggest challenge here will be if he can build upon that. I think he will have money to spend. You know as well as I do if we start throwing around anything like the figures of spend we are suggesting over the next 2 years consolidation in the top 6 alone will not be good enough in the eyes of the fans.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I remember reading towards the end of last season (before our interest in him )of a number of Soton players including Tadic and Mane who wanted out citing Koeman as the reason. Remember though that Brian Clough and Alex Ferguson two exceptionally successful managers were roundly disliked and feared by many of their own players . Ultimately I personally couldn't care which players stomp off in a hissy fit if we are successful. For the majority of players too, this will be the deciding factor not whether the manager can be abrasive (which he undoubtedly is.)

 

[brieverton]

Undoubtedly Koeman's brand of straight talking and what seems his more discliplined and demanding nature will come to a shock to many at FF. That just becomes amplified as he could scarely be less similiar to Martinez.

I just think the overall culture at Everton was too comfortable and stagnant for years. The relationship between Moyes and Kenwright/Board was just far too cosy and consisted of too much mutual back-slapping which then became even more of an issue when Martinez was appointed.

From the top down, and for close to 30 years, it just seemed everyone on the inside at Everton settled for the status quo. There was an acceptance that certain "facts" of English football and our place in the food chain were unalterable and it became a case of "nothing we can do" rather than "nothing but the best". That attitude remains deeply ingrained amongst many and will be very difficult to change.

I have often though that Moyes had a period of potentially having significant leverage over the board 2-3 years before he left - he could have made noises about resigning due to lack of support and would have had the whole fanbase behind him - but he was too comfortable and had no ambition. I get the feeling that Koeman will not be so forgiving or understanding if we don't take the steps to improve - that would be something I would welcome.

If Koeman's approach yields tangible success and achievement, then it will be vindicated. As a starting point in trying to awaken the club and instill a winning attitude, he has begun very brightly. We need everyone at the club, literally everyone, to stop being slaves to the acceptance of mediocrity - that means a new stadium, additional and continued investment in new players, and a demand for a winning team, with additions to our roll of honour and Champions League football.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I think it's pretty much accepted currency that he alienated a few players at S'ton with the way he treated them. Mane and Tadic in particular appear to have been at loggerheads with him.

He's an abrasive character. It goes with the territory. If all is going well players will put up with it. If things are going poorly they wont.

Ah bless 'em. Telling them what he expects from them and then if they fail to deliver on a consistent basis dropping them.

Is this the same Mane who went for £34m this summer after spending 2 years under Koeman btw?

75 games in 2 years - hardly a forgotten man banished to the ressies sulking eh?

 

[MikeH72]

Ah bless 'em. Telling them what he expects from them and then if they fail to deliver on a consistent basis dropping them.

Is this the same Mane who went for £34m this summer after spending 2 years under Koeman btw?

75 games in 2 years - hardly a forgotten man banished to the ressies sulking eh?

The Koeman-Tadic situation that David is explaining to us here sounds eerily similar to the Martinez-Mirallas one last season. Now why isn't Tadic the pantomime villain in this instance again?

 

[MartyMcFly]

Think moshiri has done really well he got everything he wanted managerial wise, koeman was his first option paid near 7 million for him and 10 million to get rid of martinez, paid for walsh, stadium plans look well underway, we didnt need loads of signings are squad was already strong, clearly we made efforts to sign players!!

I assume you missed the Norwich game if you think the squad is strong.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I think it's pretty much accepted currency that he alienated a few players at S'ton with the way he treated them. Mane and Tadic in particular appear to have been at loggerheads with him.

He's an abrasive character. It goes with the territory. If all is going well players will put up with it. If things are going poorly they wont.

It's the better that than a manager who while it's going well players will love but while it's going badly they won't respect.

"Is it better to be loved than feared?"