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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
This time last season we had exactly the same number of points. At least there was a commitment to get at teams and score goals.
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Not only do we have 2 points more at this stage of the season (as pointed out by @MoutsGoat) but Martinez was one quarter of the way through his third season, not one quarter of the way through his first season, so it's not quite a fair comparison is it?
 
davek said:
We were chasing that game in the second half...this is Burnley we're chasing it against, btw! I'd expect us to be piling up attacks. But where does that go to at City (did S'ton hide away and park the bus?); what happened against Palace at home when we hung on for a point?; How did Bournemouth show us how to attack down there?

I'm not against a defensive game when it's required against good teams, but the defence shouldn't be at the expense of giving us a chance to get forward and attack ourselves. That happens to us because we haven't sorted that defence out yet, it;s still a mess; Koeman has neglected that and that's why he defends with 8/9 men.
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Thats a disgusting level of elitism you have there David, Burnley and Bournemouth both have very good home records.

And Southampton gained the same amount of points we did against City.

You keep saying we defend with 8/9 men, Ronny wants us to defend with 11 men, you simply have no idea how pressing football works and I suspect 3-4 of our players either dont know or dont have the stomach for it.

We field 4 attacking players every single game, the onus is on those players to perform.

We have the 2nd best defensive record in the league, I will take you apart post by post, I will crush you under the might of reasoning and sensibility, bend the knee or leave the thread, I am your reckoning.
 
davek said:
There's no agenda over Koeman. I was supporting him being installed as manager when you were backing Emery - the next in a long line of Carlos Kickaball's you've advocated to be manager.

I wont let anyone off if they set out to play negative tripe though.
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I'm becoming a little confused as to why you actually supported him. I mean in the last week alone you've attacked virtually every aspect of the man. His past record , his future intentions, the players he picks, the players he doesn't pick, the way he sets teams up,his general coaching abilities, what he says ,where he chooses to say it and to top it all off a nice slice of bigotry directed at Koeman and the entire Dutch nation. I mean if this is how you treat someone you supported,I shudder to think how you would have reacted to someone you opposed. All this and we're only 11 games in.
 
The Esk said:
Not only do we have 2 points more at this stage of the season (as pointed out by @MoutsGoat) but Martinez was one quarter of the way through his third season, not one quarter of the way through his first season, so it's not quite a fair comparison is it?
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Sorry for quoting myself but Martinez had 18 points from his first 9 league games by way of comparison.
 

The Esk said:
Sorry for quoting myself but Martinez had 18 points from his first 9 league games by way of comparison.
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An excuse for Koeman could well be the starting point he was given to work from, same with Martinez, he was afforded a really good defence, that aided him, Koeman is clearly building from the back, creating a base to work from.

What I'm saying is given the two starting positions Koeman and Martinez started from, I'd of expected a better start from Martinez, although Martinez had an easier start on paper.
 
ianefc said:
An excuse for Koeman could well be the starting point he was given to work from, same with Martinez, he was afforded a really good defence, that aided him, Koeman is clearly building from the back, creating a base to work from.

What I'm saying is given the two starting positions Koeman and Martinez started from, I'd of expected a better start from Martinez, although Martinez had an easier start on paper.
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Hes trying to bake a cake with eggs that went out of date 3 years ago.

:coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
davek said:
Well that's unfortunate for him. Perhaps we can dip into the £150M transfer kitty required to change the squad personnel for him then, and that can save him having to actually bring some coaching into the equation to teach players how he wants to play.
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Koeman had Southampton sell the majority of its best players under his watch and he was able to successfully to rebuild a team that attained European football and beat the majority of the top teams in the division. Just maybe the players he has at disposal aren't capable or good enough to play the kind of football he desires. Gana has given us energy in midfield and Williams has given us added stability at the back, however it is the attack that is underperforming. Barkley, Miralles and geri have drastically under performed this year whereas bolasie is still finding his feet. Look at the array of talent mourinho has at United and he has had significant funds to spend on the side and like Everton, it has grossly underachieved over the last 2 years and will take both koeman and mourinho time to implement the style of football they crave.
 

MoutsGoat said:
Thats a disgusting level of elitism you have there David, Burnley and Bournemouth both have very good home records.

And Southampton gained the same amount of points we did against City.

You keep saying we defend with 8/9 men, Ronny wants us to defend with 11 men, you simply have no idea how pressing football works and I suspect 3-4 of our players either dont know or dont have the stomach for it.

We field 4 attacking players every single game, the onus is on those players to perform.

We have the 2nd best defensive record in the league, I will take you apart post by post, I will crush you under the might of reasoning and sensibility, bend the knee or leave the thread, I am your reckoning.
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Totally agree with the opening to your post (and most of the rest). One thing that annoys me about forums (I look at several others) is that asumption that the other team is crap. Besides being elitist it also stops sensible discussion. You cannot evaluate one teams performance without doing the same for the other side as well. The Premier league is the best league in the world. The top teams may have competition for the international competitions like the Champions League but the teams lower down are light years ahead of lower teams in other countries and, realistically, a lot of the top teams as well.
There really are no easy games. If there was then you would have a league like the Scottish League and we don't. Another point is that if the other team is always crap then we never deserve praise for beating them!
Bournemouth looked good on the day and Burnley played to their strengths and had that bit of luck that you need or perhaps they deserved for making up for their lack of 'class' with sheer hard work and effort.
 
Shropshire Blue said:
Totally agree with the opening to your post (and most of the rest). One thing that annoys me about forums (I look at several others) is that asumption that the other team is crap. Besides being elitist it also stops sensible discussion. You cannot evaluate one teams performance without doing the same for the other side as well. The Premier league is the best league in the world. The top teams may have competition for the international competitions like the Champions League but the teams lower down are light years ahead of lower teams in other countries and, realistically, a lot of the top teams as well.
There really are no easy games. If there was then you would have a league like the Scottish League and we don't. Another point is that if the other team is always crap then we never deserve praise for beating them!
Bournemouth looked good on the day and Burnley played to their strengths and had that bit of luck that you need or perhaps they deserved for making up for their lack of 'class' with sheer hard work and effort.
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Burnley are pure gash mate
 
MoutsGoat said:
Thats a disgusting level of elitism you have there David, Burnley and Bournemouth both have very good home records.

And Southampton gained the same amount of points we did against City.

You keep saying we defend with 8/9 men, Ronny wants us to defend with 11 men, you simply have no idea how pressing football works and I suspect 3-4 of our players either dont know or dont have the stomach for it.

We field 4 attacking players every single game, the onus is on those players to perform.

We have the 2nd best defensive record in the league, I will take you apart post by post, I will crush you under the might of reasoning and sensibility, bend the knee or leave the thread, I am your reckoning.
Click to expand...

Nailed it.
 

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