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Ronald Koeman discussion

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Kev The Rat said:
My worry is that Puel has walked into Southampton and basically picked up where Koeman left off. They've been a top 8 team for half a decade now. Maybe Koeman didn't have as big an influence there as is commonly assumed.
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As for koemans influence. Half his team and all its best players were sold under his watch. Rebuilt the team with the likes of VD, Mane and Tadic. Let's hope he buys similar quality for us.
 
ToffeeTim said:
He needs to get rid asap of those with no appetite to work. There's something thoroughly unlikeable about this talented, yet timid, lazy and fragile everton squad.
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Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe its that they don't seem all that keen on playing a pressing game despite the fact that the manager has clearly instructed them to. Perhaps it's the fact that so many of them only seem to play well when certain other players do, never taking the game by the scruff of the neck themselves. Could be something different, but you're right in what you say.

I'd pretty much burn it to the ground and start again.
 
davek said:
Could well be that Koeman kept the Pochettino plate spinning and Puel is doing the same. Often happens at clubs. Look at Swansea when Martinez left: Rodgers then Laudrup then Monk adhered to the plan in place. No disgrace in that like, but it does question the scale of their achievements as they weren't the originators of that grand plan.
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Think your right Dave. Paying this man one of the highest salaries in European football comes across as slightly imprudent if the above is fair comment, which I think it is.
 
davek said:
Could well be that Koeman kept the Pochettino plate spinning and Puel is doing the same. Often happens at clubs. Look at Swansea when Martinez left: Rodgers then Laudrup then Monk adhered to the plan in place. No disgrace in that like, but it does question the scale of their achievements as they weren't the originators of that grand plan.
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Yet Martinez couldn't Keep Moyes plate spinning?
 

Kev The Rat said:
Think your right Dave. Paying this man one of the highest salaries in European football comes across as slightly imprudent if the above is fair comment, which I think it is.
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Pochettino's team was decimated by the saints board. Koeman had to rebuild a team basically from scratch. Koeman left the saints in a very healthy position for puel. Top 6 side for the loss of mane and wanyama. Both incidentally signed by koeman. Puel has a lot stronger base to work with (top 6 side) compared with what koeman inherited. It's a bit like Martinez in his first season taking over a team with great foundations and enhancing it for that one season.
 
Kev The Rat said:
Think your right Dave. Paying this man one of the highest salaries in European football comes across as slightly imprudent if the above is fair comment, which I think it is.
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rochdaleblue said:
Pochettino's team was decimated by the saints board. Koeman had to rebuild a team basically from scratch. Koeman left the saints in a very healthy position for puel. Top 6 side for the loss of mane and wanyama. Both incidentally signed by koeman. Puel has a lot stronger base to work with (top 6 side) compared with what koeman inherited. It's a bit like Martinez in his first season taking over a team with great foundations and enhancing it for that one season.
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That's your view and you're perfectly entitled to it. No one is saying that Koeman didn't get results at Soton. I'm stating the fact that Southampton under the last 3 managers including Puel have been a comfortable top 8 side. You can interpret that in any way you want. I say it dilutes Koemans individual achievements there.
 
CahillsCornerFlag said:
Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe its that they don't seem all that keen on playing a pressing game despite the fact that the manager has clearly instructed them to. Perhaps it's the fact that so many of them only seem to play well when certain other players do, never taking the game by the scruff of the neck themselves. Could be something different, but you're right in what you say.

I'd pretty much burn it to the ground and start again.
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They're just not what I want in my everton teams. I don't like their weak mentality. I want to see players as you say grabbing it by the scruff of the neck and saying I'm gonna win this for my teammates. I really don't enjoy watching them to be honest. There's just something not clicking but I hope they start playing with a bit more hunger and my apathy towards them is short lived.
 
Kev The Rat said:
That's your view and you're perfectly entitled to it. No one is saying that Koeman didn't get results at Soton. I'm stating the fact that Southampton under the last 3 managers including Puel have been a comfortable top 8 side. You can interpret that in any way you want. I say it dilutes Koemans individual achievements there.
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Your right they were a very stable club before koeman arrived. However the summer they lost chambers, lallana, lovern, Clyne, lambert many pundits were predicting a relegation battle for them. Maybe I'm overplaying the achievements of koeman in getting them top 6 within 2 years of losing all those players, but nevertheless it impressed me and more notably moshiri.
 

ToffeeTim said:
They're just not what I want in my everton teams. I don't like their weak mentality. I want to see players as you say grabbing it by the scruff of the neck and saying I'm gonna win this for my teammates. I really don't enjoy watching them to be honest. There's just something not clicking but I hope they start playing with a bit more hunger and my apathy towards them is short lived.
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The very least we demand as Everton fans is players putting in a shift for the team. The opening 45 mins against a very good Spurs team prompted optimism for what we could achieve. Sadly we haven't kicked on since then, weak mentality, apathy you got it spot on. You only have to look at koeman's frustrations in the touchline during games, he isn't at all happy what he is seeing and neither are we. We have seen a change in personnel at the very top at the club and in its management. Maybe only a total change in personnel on the pitch will see a change in direction and attitude on the pitch we so desperately want and the style of football koeman wants to implement. A style that the vast majority of the current squad seem incapable of delivering.
 
rochdaleblue said:
The very least we demand as Everton fans is players putting in a shift for the team. The opening 45 mins against a very good Spurs team prompted optimism for what we could achieve. Sadly we haven't kicked on since then, weak mentality, apathy you got it spot on. You only have to look at koeman's frustrations in the touchline during games, he isn't at all happy what he is seeing and neither are we. We have seen a change in personnel at the very top at the club and in its management. Maybe only a total change in personnel on the pitch will see a change in direction and attitude on the pitch we so desperately want and the style of football koeman wants to implement. A style that the vast majority of the current squad seem incapable of delivering.
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Changing all the players just doesn't happen I'm afraid. Unfortunately you're more likely to see another sacking of the manager before that happens. Especially when you think how hard it will be to move the likes of Cleverley, Niasse, mirallas, McCarthy on due to their inflated wages.
 
Kev The Rat said:
Changing all the players just doesn't happen I'm afraid. Unfortunately you're more likely to see another sacking of the manager before that happens. Especially when you think how hard it will be to move the likes of Cleverley Niasse, mirallas, McCarthy on due to their inflated wages.
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Fair enough but there are a number of players (particularly the attacking ones) who seem incapable of implementing what koeman wants. McCarthy and miralles of the players you've mentioned will no doubt be retained and they are good squad players. The evidence so far this season and the vast majority of the last 18 months seems to indicate a lack of consistency in our attacking players. Until we attain players of the necessary consistency and ability we are going to see more results like we saw at the weekend which is going to undermine our intentions of getting into Europe.
 

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