Ronald Koeman discussion

[Timak]

Firstly I'm firmly in the pro-Moyes staying camp.

However if he leaves we need a manager who:

Promotes youth
Has a huge knowledge of up and coming European footballers and the contacts to get them
Plays good football
And above all gets consistent results

For me that means someone like Thomas Tuchel from Mainz.

The other names mentioned on this thread are frightening. People who have proved themselves worse than Moyes or wasted millions in the transfer market.

Martinez has a reasonable budget at Wigan compared to the likes of Norwich, Swansea, WBA but has spent 3 seasons struggling in the bottom 5 and losing heavily in the games that take place before March. He has shown nothing that says he can set up a consistent winning team.

Timak, Mar 11, 2013

There is nobody in English football, who we could get, that I'd consider.

Going to have to be some random foreigner like Tuchel who might be able to bring in some quality players from Germany.

But we all know it is going to be Martinez. And we'll be back to being awful.

Timak, May 8, 2013

Anyone want the lottery numbers?

 

[ianefc]

Anyone want the lottery numbers?

Excellent work. Completely nailed it.

*salutes

 

[BlueToff]

Decent article in the Echo today about how he's good at 'stopping the rot' and pulling his teams out of little runs of poor form - including by smashing Everton 3-0 in 2014.

Imentioned a few months ago how S'ton seemed to go through the odd spells of poor form but they were never sustained and Koeman always changed one little cog that seemed to have the desired effect.

Last season it was switching to a back three and they won six games on the bounce I think, keeping 7 clean-sheets from 8 as well I believe.

Then they had to change again in about Feb because the back three had stagnated a bit. They went through a bit of a rough patch but came on strong from April onwards to finish 6th.

 

[Mountfield1985]

No, I dont. And I dont consider Martinez a manager that led us to a CL spot either. He run up a total that will never be beaten until we get a billionaire in the club...a real one that spends cash, that is.

Hang on, are you now claiming Moshiri is not a real billionaire?

 

[deipnosophist]

Anyone want the lottery numbers?

{doffs hat}...excellent work sir

 

[Zatara]

he may not have picked the players, but he got them to play well together..so y'know

Correct, he did indeed...but the players were signed to fit the Southampton system and he was deemed to be a manager to also fit their system...they go after a particular type.

 

[Zatara]

Boruc, Clyne, shaw, lovern, chambers, lallana, scherderlein and lambert. The vast majority of those players were not just squad players, but starting players for the first 11. If not being rebuilt that is a serious overhaul of a squad he needed to implement.

Yes...round of applause to Les Reed

 

[davek]

Decent article in the Echo today about how he's good at 'stopping the rot' and pulling his teams out of little runs of poor form - including by smashing Everton 3-0 in 2014.

..and then went onto lose to that same Everton team 3 months later.

And if they wanted to highlight a Koeman losing run they should have looked to the following season (the season that same Everton side battered them 3-0 down there) where the Echo hack would have seen that S'ton had a streak of 1 win in 8 games.

 

[davek]

You do seem to think that Martinez's fifth place finish was more meaningful than any of Moyes'.

I would argue that it doesn't demonstrate anything other than a particularly weak league in 2013/14.

Yeah. Probably a weak league in 2013/14, but a strong league in 2012/13 and 2014/15....that'll be it.

 

[davek]

Hang on, are you now claiming Moshiri is not a real billionaire?

No. I'm sure he's a real billionaire...a billionaire who really doesn't spend cash.

 

[Carlito]

Yeah. Probably a weak league in 2013/14, but a strong league in 2012/13 and 2014/15....that'll be it.

Well, yeah. Some seasons there are numerous clubs cut adrift at the bottom from basically the beginning, and other times there are relegated sides taking points right up until the end.

The only useful metric for measuring a team's success is its league position.

 

[davek]

Well, yeah. Some seasons there are numerous clubs cut adrift at the bottom from basically the beginning, and other times there are relegated sides taking points right up until the end.

The only useful metric for measuring a team's success is its league position.

Disagree.

Position depends on others being less/more competitive. Points total stands aside from all that and shows how your team performed results-wise. 21 wins speaks volumes to me. Never to be repeated for a number of years to come, imo.

 

[davek]

Given a lot of chat in the thread has been about our current and former managers at Everton - Southampton fans view of Koeman v Puel
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57328-Puel-v-Koeman&p=2413358#.WBDMVWNlmi4

• So, we are just over a quarter of the way through the season, and I was wondering what people's reactions are now to our French tactician?Personally, after a gruelling Summer for a lot of our players due to the Euro's, the loss of Mane/Pelle/Wanyama, and a change of formation to the Diamond, I think we look like a better team that we did last season, and this can only be down to Puel. The way he has our team switching to and from the diamond to a fluid 4-3-3, the integration of youngsters and the superb rotation of a squad which has had a lot of games and injuries has been genius, and with more in form strikers we'd have far more wins than we do now. Yes, it is still early days, but if we can continue to play like this and build momentum I see no reason why we cannot challenge for another top 6 place. Some players are looking far better under him than Koeman, namely Romeu, Austin, Martina and JWP. We also manage to play ourselves out of trouble brilliantly at times, almost Barcelona-esque. He does however need to improve on his press conferences as this is one of the most important facets of the game now. Everton on the other hand, although they picked up a number of points in early games (and a very easy fixture list), have looked pretty abject since the early run, and are looking a bit like our recent Dec/Jan out of form teams. Everton fans are also a bit surprised at his non-use of youngsters, although obviously we know all about that. I think we may well see Everton drop off as their fixtures get harder over the coming two months. So far I see no reason to lament the loss of Koeman, and I think Puel has obviously won himself some grace to get this team playing the way he wants them to

• Yep, I concur. Puel appears more of a football technician looking at alternatives and all aspects of a player's game. I also believe he will last more than two seasons. Koeman, like Poch, was in it to enhance his own career path towards Barca.

• I have no problem with Koeman and you can't really argue with 7th and 6th place finishes. However three things have stood out with Puel compared to Koeman:
  
  1. He's been much more trusting of the young players, notably McQueen in the last couple of weeks. I think if Koeman was in charge, Yoshida would be playing at right back and Martina at left back instead.
  2. We have a much more identifiable style. Last year, particularly away from home, we just wanted to soak things up and then hope to catch someone on the break for a 1-0 victory. This year, things seem much more joined up, although it is quite difficult to specify exactly how
  3. The players seem much more praiseworthy of Puel, which is quite telling. Tadic and Mane quite clearly fell out with Koeman last year. VVD, Austin and Romeu have been gushing in their praise the last few weeks from what I've seen
  
  Plus, I hope Puel gives the FA Cup and/or the EL knock out stages more of a go after Christmas. You felt as though Koeman threw the cups in order to protect his Premier League bonus money

• No one can doubt RK achievements with Saints but I never really warmed to him or his tactics and sure some utter dirge under him, away at WBA and Norwich spring straight to mind.
  
  CP, however, I'm liking. I don't know what he's done or how he's done it but he's got Saints playing some wonderfully fluid football where everyone is looking for the ball and wanting to attack. He's prepared to take risks with the youngsters, something RK would never do and it strikes me that he hasn't a "big" move in mind where as we all know/knew RK really wants the Barca job.
  
  Yes we will hit rough patches and the usual cu_nts wll be calling for his head but he's certainly impressed me with the way he's got us playing, squad management and general ethos.

• 100% agree VFTT. Wasn't keen on him at first with some of the other options but, as ever, the club really did its homework. Some of the play right now is beautiful to watch and, on the whole, way better than under RK.
  
  We are well drilled, everyone knows their role and CP is not afraid to mix it up and blood the youngsters which will, in turn, make them hungrier as they know they will get a chance if they show potential.
  
  Hopefully the style of play will continue and we will get more clinical in front of goal: that is the one thing that is missing and if that clicks we will be as good as anyone in the League.

• Puel gives the impression of being more cerebral than Koeman. As a disciple of Wenger's he has that air of the professor about him. Tactically he seems to get everything pretty well spot on so far. When he brings on substitutes during a match, you find yourself applauding both the players involved and the timing and soon after, the results on the pitch are palpable tactically, whether it is introducing a fresh pair of legs, minimising the chances of a second yellow card, or neutralising a threat down a weaker flank or strengthening the midfield.
  
  The juggling act required to rotate the players over the additional matches because of the Cup and the Europa League shows that he is able to manage the players and their egos very well, and that they understand that their team mates, even the youngsters, have to have the opportunity to step up to the breach for the greater good of the team. He must therefore command the respect of the players and have earned their trust.
  
  It is still early days, but on the face of it, we have pulled off another managerial coup. Personally I am finding the style of play more entertaining and exciting than under Koeman and surely that's what it's all about.

 

[ashwuk76]

Given a lot of chat in the thread has been about our current and former managers at Everton - Southampton fans view of Koeman v Puel
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57328-Puel-v-Koeman&p=2413358#.WBDMVWNlmi4

• So, we are just over a quarter of the way through the season, and I was wondering what people's reactions are now to our French tactician?Personally, after a gruelling Summer for a lot of our players due to the Euro's, the loss of Mane/Pelle/Wanyama, and a change of formation to the Diamond, I think we look like a better team that we did last season, and this can only be down to Puel. The way he has our team switching to and from the diamond to a fluid 4-3-3, the integration of youngsters and the superb rotation of a squad which has had a lot of games and injuries has been genius, and with more in form strikers we'd have far more wins than we do now. Yes, it is still early days, but if we can continue to play like this and build momentum I see no reason why we cannot challenge for another top 6 place. Some players are looking far better under him than Koeman, namely Romeu, Austin, Martina and JWP. We also manage to play ourselves out of trouble brilliantly at times, almost Barcelona-esque. He does however need to improve on his press conferences as this is one of the most important facets of the game now. Everton on the other hand, although they picked up a number of points in early games (and a very easy fixture list), have looked pretty abject since the early run, and are looking a bit like our recent Dec/Jan out of form teams. Everton fans are also a bit surprised at his non-use of youngsters, although obviously we know all about that. I think we may well see Everton drop off as their fixtures get harder over the coming two months. So far I see no reason to lament the loss of Koeman, and I think Puel has obviously won himself some grace to get this team playing the way he wants them to

• Yep, I concur. Puel appears more of a football technician looking at alternatives and all aspects of a player's game. I also believe he will last more than two seasons. Koeman, like Poch, was in it to enhance his own career path towards Barca.

• I have no problem with Koeman and you can't really argue with 7th and 6th place finishes. However three things have stood out with Puel compared to Koeman:
  
  1. He's been much more trusting of the young players, notably McQueen in the last couple of weeks. I think if Koeman was in charge, Yoshida would be playing at right back and Martina at left back instead.
  2. We have a much more identifiable style. Last year, particularly away from home, we just wanted to soak things up and then hope to catch someone on the break for a 1-0 victory. This year, things seem much more joined up, although it is quite difficult to specify exactly how
  3. The players seem much more praiseworthy of Puel, which is quite telling. Tadic and Mane quite clearly fell out with Koeman last year. VVD, Austin and Romeu have been gushing in their praise the last few weeks from what I've seen
  
  Plus, I hope Puel gives the FA Cup and/or the EL knock out stages more of a go after Christmas. You felt as though Koeman threw the cups in order to protect his Premier League bonus money

• No one can doubt RK achievements with Saints but I never really warmed to him or his tactics and sure some utter dirge under him, away at WBA and Norwich spring straight to mind.
  
  CP, however, I'm liking. I don't know what he's done or how he's done it but he's got Saints playing some wonderfully fluid football where everyone is looking for the ball and wanting to attack. He's prepared to take risks with the youngsters, something RK would never do and it strikes me that he hasn't a "big" move in mind where as we all know/knew RK really wants the Barca job.
  
  Yes we will hit rough patches and the usual cu_nts wll be calling for his head but he's certainly impressed me with the way he's got us playing, squad management and general ethos.

• 100% agree VFTT. Wasn't keen on him at first with some of the other options but, as ever, the club really did its homework. Some of the play right now is beautiful to watch and, on the whole, way better than under RK.
  
  We are well drilled, everyone knows their role and CP is not afraid to mix it up and blood the youngsters which will, in turn, make them hungrier as they know they will get a chance if they show potential.
  
  Hopefully the style of play will continue and we will get more clinical in front of goal: that is the one thing that is missing and if that clicks we will be as good as anyone in the League.

• Puel gives the impression of being more cerebral than Koeman. As a disciple of Wenger's he has that air of the professor about him. Tactically he seems to get everything pretty well spot on so far. When he brings on substitutes during a match, you find yourself applauding both the players involved and the timing and soon after, the results on the pitch are palpable tactically, whether it is introducing a fresh pair of legs, minimising the chances of a second yellow card, or neutralising a threat down a weaker flank or strengthening the midfield.
  
  The juggling act required to rotate the players over the additional matches because of the Cup and the Europa League shows that he is able to manage the players and their egos very well, and that they understand that their team mates, even the youngsters, have to have the opportunity to step up to the breach for the greater good of the team. He must therefore command the respect of the players and have earned their trust.
  
  It is still early days, but on the face of it, we have pulled off another managerial coup. Personally I am finding the style of play more entertaining and exciting than under Koeman and surely that's what it's all about.

Sack him and get Martinez back... you missed that bit off your post mate...

 

[davek]

Sack him and get Martinez back... you missed that bit off your post mate...

He's gone onto a bigger stage now mate. I doubt he'll walk away from managing in a World Cup.