Ronald Koeman discussion

[Goat]

There's a lot of spin offs around football now that add to the entertainment (most of it useless and cringeworthy to me like), but if the football spectacle wasn't there that wouldn't exist. There is a core at the centre of this football industry that acts as a power source: that core is the beauty of the game itself - the individual bit of brilliance we all hope to see or the eye-pleasing combinations of a team playing it to feet and getting the ball into the opposition box for a goal chance. That's what we all watch football for - to see that. And that is entertainment.

I watch football to be entertained, I watch Everton for VICTORY.

 

[caught]

Thank you Mr Gullit. That last section rammed home the point I've been making on style: he has no set style and he's a pragmatist. There's no attempt to do anything other than get a point - if need be by parking the bus when he thinks it will serve its purpose.

Gullit is wrong in a couple of respects: first, he states that Koeman plays this way because the players at Everton are not Barcelona class: really? Thanks for pointing that out, but in this league you dont need to have that quality to play attacking football against any club and get a win - see Liverpool this season...a team of bang average players + Coutinho. Second, Barkley - he should know that Barkley has played better than this in whole patches of seasons for the last three of them without any coaching from Koeman. He has not 'stung' Barkley into anything. And he's kidding himself if he thinks Barkley isn't a class of player who wouldn't be snapped up in a heartbeat by elite clubs with managers who wont stab him in the back in public...and it must be very tempting to Ross righ now to get his agent on the phone to swing one of those deals.

By the way: coloured crayons: imagine if Martinez used colouring in books for his coaching courses? Lol.

It's pretty clear Koeman has been hired to get results above all else, which, it doesn't really need to be said, is the priority of every managerial appointment. City have the wealth and quality to bring in Guardiola and attempt to win stylishly, while Klopp has been effective so far in overwhelming teams with intensity despite his squad's shortcomings. But 99.9% of clubs across Europe would jump at the chance of hiring a solid, pragmatic coach who knows how to win, and when you consider the players we were apparently trying for over the summer (all fairly experienced and established internationals), the players we actually got (all with Prem experience - few risks), and Koeman's apparent lack of interest in promoting youth (not at Feyernoord but that was somewhat out of his control), it's evident that the short term thinking is to get Everton into the European qualification spots as soon as possible.

Whether it works or not we'll have to see. And whether this plan is the first phase of something larger and more ambitious we'll also have to see. All we can say for sure about Koeman right now is that he's started fairly well and is probably doing the exact job he was asked to do.

 

[davek]

"We were all enthusiastic but even his note-taking was extremely systematic - it still makes me laugh that he wrote everything down very carefully using lots of different coloured pens."

1996–1998 Chelsea (player-manager)
1998–1999 Newcastle United
2004–2005 Feyenoord
2007–2008 Los Angeles Galaxy
2011 Terek Grozny

Not laughing now are you Ruud you utter trumpet, run along now, ITV needs you.

He's laughing at the ginger lad at the back of the class with crayons...who can blame him...really?

 

[davek]

I watch football to be entertained, I watch Everton for VICTORY.

GERTCHA!!!!!

 

[Goat]

GERTCHA!!!!!

But ok, this is football Dave.

 

[GwladysPhil]

I'm sure this season will be a success - most likely in the Europa League places.

But I'm more excited to seeing what Koeman brings next season, a solid year with players and a chance for him to bring in what he wants.

 

[davek]

It's pretty clear Koeman has been hired to get results above all else, which, it doesn't really need to be said, is the priority of every managerial appointment. City have the wealth and quality to bring in Guardiola and attempt to win stylishly, while Klopp has been effective so far in overwhelming teams with intensity despite his squad's shortcomings. But 99.9% of clubs across Europe would jump at the chance of hiring a solid, pragmatic coach who knows how to win, and when you consider the players we were apparently trying for over the summer (all fairly experienced and established internationals), the players we actually got (all with Prem experience - few risks), and Koeman's apparent lack of interest in promoting youth (not at Feyernoord but that was somewhat out of his control), it's evident that the short term thinking is to get Everton into the European qualification spots as soon as possible.

Whether it works or not we'll have to see. And whether this plan is the first phase of something larger and more ambitious we'll also have to see. All we can say for sure about Koeman right now is that he's started fairly well and is probably doing the exact job he was asked to do.

I dont doubt doubt he was chosen to get solid positions, but you achieve that in this league (and he's no novice in it) by getting three points as decisively as you can. I disagree that we dont have the players already to get them.

I was expecting Koeman to come in and do a lot of work on the back four and have them do the job they are there for. But I dont think they are all that different apart from the more aggressive Williams being in there. We have less goals conceded because Koeman has a lot of people running around in front of them covering ground doing a defensive shift. I said last night that I dont see this team transitioning well enough for a game like that and we suffer in an attacking sense.

 

[Saint Domingo]

We've played badly and are only 5 points off the top of the league. If we can keep in touching distance over Christmas Koeman's Southampton used to finish very strongly indeed.

 

[caught]

I dont doubt doubt he was chosen to get solid positions, but you achieve that in this league (and he's no novice in it) by getting three points as decisively as you can. I disagree that we dont have the players already to get them.

I was expecting Koeman to come in and do a lot of work on the back four and have them do the job they are there for. But I dont think they are all that different apart from the more aggressive Williams being in there. We have less goals conceded because Koeman has a lot of people running around in front of them covering ground doing a defensive shift. I said last night that I dont see this team transitioning well enough for a game like that and we suffer in an attacking sense.

You're not wrong, although there are glimpses of it at times between Lukaku, Barkley and Bolasie. We seem to set up in periods as a counter-attacking team - which is totally fine and was often are most effective tactic under Martinez - but attacking players take longer to blend together than defenders due to the fact it's much less about drills and 'safety-first' play than it is about split second instinct and learned awareness.

Still, there are little signs of it. Rom's touch to put Gueye in on goal yesterday, Bolasie's flick for Lukaku's goal against Man City come to mind. A lot depends who Koeman can add to the attack in the next two windows.

 

[neil999]

We've played badly and are only 5 points off the top of the league. If we can keep in touching distance over Christmas Koeman's Southampton used to finish very strongly indeed.

yeah...i just want us to keep in touch until january then hopefully someone will find the key for the 100 mill warchest..

 

[Woolly Blue]

Mate (and I dont blame you for not knowing this) but people in this city years ago would go one week to see Everton and one week to see Liverpool, not because they had a corinthian spirit but because it was top flight (usually) professional football that they could watch of a Saturday afternoon. Tribalism didn't come int it.

Honest to God, you have this completely wrong. It beggars belief that you think football played by highly skilled men/teams who get paid a fortune for it isn't there to entertain people. It was always thus, maybe the wages and corporate side have ballooned, but the essence of professional football was that it was a paid for entertainment provided by entrepreneurs who corralled thousands into grounds in our towns and cities and the massive rivalries came out of that. The jumpers for goalposts years was a primitive amateurism and was not the golden era that became corrupted...it was a different beast altogether.

Nah mate, I know quite a few Blues and Kopites who, as kids, would watch both teams and it wasn't unusual, but that's massively different to the "I've paid forty quid to watch this and expect to be entertained" attitude which is creeping into the game.

Wools did the same. People would support Bolton but would often catch a game at Deepdale or Ewood as well, which wasn't really because they wanted to be entertained, they just loved footie and the only way to watch a game was to go to one.

With the expense of watching Premier League football and the plethora of other things to spend your money on, I can understand the reasons why people feel the need to be entertained, but I can't remember leaving matches when I was in my teens hearing people complaining about not being entertained

I dunno how old you are, but I suspect you're a damned sight younger than and, as I have first hand experience of what I'm typing about we're going to gave to agree to disagree.

 

[MikeH72]

Remember when we couldn't win games?

 

[Ashtonian]

Think yesterday was a big win for us in all honesty. West ham were getting back into a turnaround of sorts for their season so to turn up and beat them is a great result in my eyes,

Think it is good for Koeman as well because it shows his team isn't truly terrible and he can get us to get results. Great goals, ross scoring from open play another plus point, and clean sheet as well.

All in all a good game for us, now we move onto next week.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Mate (and I dont blame you for not knowing this) but people in this city years ago would go one week to see Everton and one week to see Liverpool, not because they had a corinthian spirit but because it was top flight (usually) professional football that they could watch of a Saturday afternoon. Tribalism didn't come int it.

Honest to God, you have this completely wrong. It beggars belief that you think football played by highly skilled men/teams who get paid a fortune for it isn't there to entertain people. It was always thus, maybe the wages and corporate side have ballooned, but the essence of professional football was that it was a paid for entertainment provided by entrepreneurs who corralled thousands into grounds in our towns and cities and the massive rivalries came out of that. The jumpers for goalposts years was a primitive amateurism and was not the golden era that became corrupted...it was a different beast altogether.

The kopites watched one of the most boring sides in the history of football win everything before them in the days of the backpass.

They're still gutted about that to this day. Weeping that they didn't win with more style.

Oh wait.

 

[collymcd]

I was expecting Koeman to come in and do a lot of work on the back four and have them do the job they are there for. But I dont think they are all that different apart from the more aggressive Williams being in there.

Are you joking? We have the second best defence in the league after 10 games.