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Ronald Koeman discussion

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Coffee and TV said:
It's ridiculous that the day after we win a game there's an argument about us not doing it with enough 'style'. We were even playing nice stuff at times yesterday - that one touch move that resulted in Adrian saving a first time shot from Lukaku near the end would have been a gorgeous goal. But no lets fawn over how Liverpool play for some reason.
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I did not enjoy the derbies under Martinez overall but with Koeman at the helm it's going to be a different story.
 
davek said:
...oh look, you seem to have done exactly what you accuse me of: "a tiny nod" to the most important incident of the game - that tit getting sent off and leaving us undermanned for an hour.

Even so we played a better WHU than that toothless one yesterday and played them off the park until Captain Fantastic couldn't organise the defence of a 2 goal lead. If we';d had Williams instead of the church mouse that day we'd have run out winners. Thank God he's dropped and on the way out.
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Don't agree that the sending off was the most important bit of the game. As you rightly pointed out we played well without him. I saw the lukaku missed penalty as the turning point in that game. We then lost the game through poor game management, a bad substitution and inability to defend properly for 15 minutes when a team puts you under pressure. This was not down solely to one player, but rather a team who collectively were not drilled in how to defend a lead and close a game out. All things which we showed yesterday we have improved on.
 
Coffee and TV said:
It's ridiculous that the day after we win a game there's an argument about us not doing it with enough 'style'. We were even playing nice stuff at times yesterday - that one touch move that resulted in Adrian saving a first time shot from Lukaku near the end would have been a gorgeous goal. But no lets fawn over how Liverpool play for some reason.
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What's even more ridiculous is the irony of the situation- Let's agree for the sake of argument that Koeman is intentionally playing less "entertaining" football for the sake of winning. If that's the case, the reason he's doing so is because this very forum and the complainers would call for his head and label him a failure if we were sitting in 11th now with, say 20 GF and 18 conceded.

The very fact this forum- with all its critics- exists is exhibit #1 why a manager's priority will always be to win, no matter how pretty. That being said I don't think there's a deliberate decision to be less attacking, we just lack cohesion in the attacking end and hopefully that will improve over time and Ross is righted.
 

Amw79 said:
Don't agree that the sending off was the most important bit of the game. As you rightly pointed out we played well without him. I saw the lukaku missed penalty as the turning point in that game. We then lost the game through poor game management, a bad substitution and inability to defend properly for 15 minutes when a team puts you under pressure. This was not down solely to one player, but rather a team who collectively were not drilled in how to defend a lead and close a game out. All things which we showed yesterday we have improved on.
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The manager was at fault for the loss...but you say Lukaku's failure to make it 3-0 was the most important moment. How does that work?

Blame Lukaku's miss or that fruitcake Mirallas or the church mouse at the back who couldn't organise a piss up at the Rovers Return. That makes more sense than blaming a man on the sidelines who's game plan had got us to a 2 goal lead with 12 minutes to go.
 
davek said:
You forgot the small matter of being down to 10 men for an hour when that tit Mirallas stabbed us in the back....again.
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Or when your man paid £13m for Niasse after apparently being after him for 18 months, and sent him on to do a job in that game and he made a headless chicken look good!
 
bcblue1878 said:
Or when your man paid £13m for Niasse after apparently being after him for 18 months, and sent him on to do a job in that game and he made a headless chicken look good!
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He took a forward off and replaced him with a forward and another forward off and replaced him with a defensive midfielder.

Nothing to see there.

The defence collapsed because they were weak men, psychologically not up to it...as Koeman is now recognising.
 

bcblue1878 said:
Or when your man paid £13m for Niasse after apparently being after him for 18 months, and sent him on to do a job in that game and he made a headless chicken look good!
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He wasnt at fault for that loss though. He wasnt playing in a defence that shipped 3 goals, he wasnt the one who missed a pen and he wasn't the one who got sent off.
 
davek said:
The defence collapsed because they were weak men, psychologically not up to it...as Koeman is now recognising.
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True this, they have been mentally weak for years. Good players generally, some even very good but they have always lacked the proper winning mentality.
 
Papa Shango said:
True this, they have been mentally weak for years. Good players generally, some even very good but they have always lacked the proper winning mentality.
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They were trusted to be free thinking men by Martinez. That was a big mistake. They are and always will be the same over grown school boys that Moyes dominated and told what to do. No wonder some of them welcomed Koeman in as the next father figure of authority...mind you, that one isn't going too well for the church mouse right now!
 
davek said:
The manager was at fault for the loss...but you say Lukaku's failure to make it 3-0 was the most important moment. How does that work?

Blame Lukaku's miss or that fruitcake Mirallas or the church mouse at the back who couldn't organise a piss up at the Rovers Return. That makes more sense than blaming a man on the sidelines who's game plan had got us to a 2 goal lead with 12 minutes to go.
Click to expand...

How does that work? Quite easily. Lukaku miss was the turning point. however can't blame him for conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes. Also I wouldn't blame mirallas who wasn't on the pitch (despite him obviously being an idiot for getting sent off), as unlikely he'd have done much defending either. I'd rather look at the players who were on the pitch and why they were unable to see the game out.

As I said, it was down to poor subs (looked to give new forward game-time, when an extra midfielder / defender was the right call), and a badly drilled team who collapsed as soon as they came under any pressure as they weren't coached to defend properly.

This was clearly a hallmark of a Martinez team - hence it happening regularly under him, and hence was the first thing Koeman looked to put right.
 

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