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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
Football management is split into idealists and pragmatists - the age old struggle. Koeman is firmly in the latter camp. We had an idealist before him and a pragmatist before that. It'll be less of a bumpy ride, but probably a less exciting one.
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When that excitement entails our worst ever home record and 2 4-0 hammerings at the pit in three years - then think i can live with the loss of excitement a little bit mate
 
bluestevon said:
When that excitement entails our worst ever home record and 2 4-0 hammerings at the pit in three years - then think i can live with the loss of excitement a little bit mate
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...and you can reverse the sentiment too.

I lost count of the number of people at the arse end of the Moyes era who stated they'd gladly set aside a top 8 season for some good football and a tilt at winning a trophy.

It's all cyclical, as suggested.
 
ianefc said:
True, but let's worry about a drop in our league position if/when it happens. If a win can't be enjoyed then what's the point?
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Totally agree! I have been enjoying myself far more this season than either of the past two, as evidenced by my more active presence here. (The past two seasons were depressing and I didn't want to talk about it).

I am preaching caution is all. I've yet to see a match where I've felt like we're actually going places. Everything seems nicely setup for a 6th-10th placed finish. And with the past summer under our belt...have we just reverted to Moyes' Everton?

Which is better than the past two seasons, I grant, but also not exactly something I'm celebrating. I need further convincing.
 

ilikecheese said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like there were some wins over the last two seasons that you didn't enjoy.
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Given the fact we've only won 22 league games in the past two seasons (not including this) it'd be pretty easy to revisit threads and see what I said.
 
mikeh72 said:
Koeman is the teacher at school that was proper scary and you hated, but when you grew up you realised he was right all along and his strictness actually benefitted in helping round you into a better human being. Martinez is the one who just gave you a textbook to copy out of and sat at the front on his laptop while you all made paper aeroplanes and tipped all the chairs upside down.
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And took you outside and said no lesson today.
 
davek said:
Imo that's a statistic more down to the number of bodies behind the ball than drilling that back four + GK. No one can tell me that apart from Williams, who is a bona fide defender, the rest of the defensive unit are better than they were last season. Coleman? No, still gets under the ball and loses focus on position. Jagielka? No, lost his man for the City and West Brom goals and giving daft pens away.
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Seriously?? You need to take those Martinez tinted specs off.

The point of association football is to score more goals than the opposition, if you keep letting in 2/3 goals a match unless you are the Harlem globetrotters it doesn't take a genius to work out you are going to lose games. If everyone is upfield as the other team put the ball into your net and that keeps happening over and over then that's even worse indictment of a manager as he can't even grasp the basics.

If our improvement in defending is just down to numbers then why did we concede so many goals from set plays in the previous two seasons?

When we were on it under Martinez it was great to watch but teams quickly figured us out and we didn't have a plan B. One great season does not outweigh two pathetic ones. Koeman's brand may not be as exciting but he'll get more results. (please don't retort with the anomaly 72 points which is clearly the exception and not the rule)

Maybe after the defence has been sorted by a more pragmatic character then we may be ripe like last time for someone more forward thinking, but hopefully not so forward thinking as Martinez! In the meantime can't we just enjoy the fact we won a home game, didn't happen too many times last season.
 
davek said:
Football management is split into idealists and pragmatists - the age old struggle. Koeman is firmly in the latter camp. We had an idealist before him and a pragmatist before that. It'll be less of a bumpy ride, but probably a less exciting one.
Click to expand...
Disagree. The best managers mix the 2 styles up and use a suitable style against a variety of opposition. Martinez was an idiot and a dreamer - not like you of course Davek
 
The binman chronicles said:
Seriously?? You need to take those Martinez tinted specs off.

The point of association football is to score more goals than the opposition, if you keep letting in 2/3 goals a match unless you are the Harlem globetrotters it doesn't take a genius to work out you are going to lose games. If everyone is upfield as the other team put the ball into your net and that keeps happening over and over then that's even worse indictment of a manager as he can't even grasp the basics.

If our improvement in defending is just down to numbers then why did we concede so many goals from set plays in the previous two seasons?

When we were on it under Martinez it was great to watch but teams quickly figured us out and we didn't have a plan B. One great season does not outweigh two pathetic ones. Koeman's brand may not be as exciting but he'll get more results. (please don't retort with the anomaly 72 points which is clearly the exception and not the rule)

Maybe after the defence has been sorted by a more pragmatic character then we may be ripe like last time for someone more forward thinking, but hopefully not so forward thinking as Martinez! In the meantime can't we just enjoy the fact we won a home game, didn't happen too many times last season.
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The Harlem Globetrotters play basketball mate.
 

TrachyBlue said:
Disagree. The best managers mix the 2 styles up and use a suitable style against a variety of opposition. Martinez was an idiot and a dreamer - not like you of course Davek
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Well, I tell you what mate. If he's one of the best managers he's going to have to get a shift on to prove it, because his pragmatism so far in his 17 year old managerial career hasn't brought him many successes.
 
ianefc said:
Given the fact we've only won 22 league games in the past two seasons (not including this) it'd be pretty easy to revisit threads and see what I said.
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Look mate I don't want to get into an argument, but you didn't seem very happy after this game:

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/search/10885750/

Not that you were fumin or anything, but you didn't seem very happy that we won.

Anyway...Koeman. I have only been disappointed in one match...the draw at City.

I mean it was a good result, in fact with the way we played it was a, *clears throat*, phenomenal result.

I hope that's not the way we play going forward versus the better teams in the league.
 
davek said:
Well, I tell you what mate. If he's one of the best managers he's going to have to get a shift on to prove it, because his pragmatism so far in his 17 year old managerial career hasn't brought him many successes.
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Apart from these
Ajax
Benfica
PSV
Valencia
AZ
He's been here less than 6 months ffs; let's see what it's like at the end if the season and put the daggers away
 
Connor said:
Just read the piece about him speaking to Mori after the Argentine dreamboat made comments about possibly leaving:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-defender-funes-mori-now-12124244 On mobile so can't Copy and Paste.

Similar to Romelu - you speak to Koeman and you drop your problem.
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So he told Mori that he wasn't in the team because others were doing well in his position. He kept true to that last weekend by playing Mori after Jagielkas disastrous form. So it'll be a massive undermining of that approach he promised Mori if this weekend he's benched after playing in a winning team against WHU.
 

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