Ronald Koeman discussion

[Zatara]

Yes ,let's develop them ,let's watch them making mistakes on their way to a career for Rotherham,costing us points as they go. Oh and let's enjoy the one or two that are any good, leave for a top club as soon as they can. I'm working under the premise that we may have money,laughable I know. If we haven't then mid table obscurity livened up by occasional relegation battles will be our lot for the foreseeable regardless of snot nosed kids or gormless managers. Becoming the modern day Crewe Alexandria , developing players for the top clubs to benefit from doesn't interest me, sorry.

How much money do we need to spend to make the champions league as without that we wont attract top.players so need to develop them

Youre not very confident in Unsworth nor Walsh to bring through good players yet Holgate and Galloway have come into the 1st team ans been good

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

How much money do we need to spend to make the champions league as without that we wont attract top.players so need to develop them

Youre not very confident in Unsworth nor Walsh to bring through good players yet Holgate and Galloway have come into the 1st team ans been good

Throughout the years relatively few players come through the club, those that have ,have developed into decent ,not great ,players. The exception being Rooney and he turned his back on us first opportunity. Holgate (who I rate highly ) like Galloway and Stones, were bought from lower league clubs having already gained some first team experience. So no I doubt very much the model you propose will ever yield sustained success. Since football first became professional,the ability of the richer clubs to buy in established players has always underpinned their success. To compete ,you have to spend, if you haven't got it you wait for a miracle ,or Brian Clough.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

How much money do we need to spend to make the champions league as without that we wont attract top.players so need to develop them

Youre not very confident in Unsworth nor Walsh to bring through good players yet Holgate and Galloway have come into the 1st team ans been good

A far bigger issue is attracting a top manager. I don't see us ever attracting a top manager unless there is a sugar daddy bankrolling the club. Koeman is just about as good as it gets for us. An above average manager (Pellegrini, Mancini) can be successful with unlimited amounts of money (in other words it's largely down to great players getting it done), but only a great manager can be successful with your normal amount of money to spend. We don't have the status to attract such a manager.

 

[Khalekan]

30m gets you Bolasie though

Yay.....

 

[Blue Cheese]

I'm not using this as a stick because I don't think Koeman is all too blame, however, using the He got Southampton to 6th crack doesn't wash, he did that in a year when the League was upside down and was won by Leicester, what I'm saying is take it with a pinch of salt and examine his career as a whole.

 

[hammyefc]

We 'should' have:

Coleman / Williams / Mori / Baines
Kenny / Holgate / Galloway / Connolly

Or similar and after one poor game swap in the young player. The only one this season who would be a mainstay would be Williams.

Same in midfield...Barry and Gana with Davies to slot in.

Holgate and Davies should be in for swansea at least.

I like Koeman but I think it's pretty obvious so far he's not got much time for the young lads

 

[MACCA75]

Which is still about 5 years behind everyone.

We can't attract top talent so we have to still rely on a scouting network. So unless we discover some gems, 5th to 7th is all were gonna get

The manager has to get wise to this IF he wants to get anywhere. But I feel his brand of football in this league gets us in the same position we can probably get this season -5th to 7th

There is no chance we'll finish 5th! What have you been watching?

 

[MACCA75]

We have a pressing game without having players who can press.
A keeper who doesn't belong anywhere near the top half of the Prem, barely passable defensive cover. We rely on a 35 year old in midfield, and our attacking players are ALL horribly inconsistent.

Massive rebuild required.

 

[BlueToff]

We have a pressing game without having players who can press.
A keeper who doesn't belong anywhere near the top half of the Prem, barely passable defensive cover. We rely on a 35 year old in midfield, and our attacking players are ALL horribly inconsistent.

Massive rebuild required.

The most annoying thing is, the West Ham game just last week showed how effective these players can be when they play with pace.

While we have quick players, we haven't played with pace (on the whole) for the past few years. No movement whatsever.

That being said, the fact that (regardless of who we have played) we are still seventh shows to me that we are firmly in with the shout of 'best of the rest' (and tbh the only thing that is going to keep Utd just above us will be their 'star' power).

While I don't want that to be all Everton offer, I'd take it as a step in the right direction.

The other night was a disgrace and it's all about the reaction now, but it did show how thread-bare the squad is in terms of quality (McCarthy and Gueye out and suddenly our midfield is in tatters).

The re-build isn't as big as everyone is saying, but the spine of the team needs a re-jig.

I think Williams is showing he'll be here for the next 2-3 years with that quality, but a new centre-half capable of playing the ball out from the back but also defending (and for all Koeman's detractors, he had this with VVD at S'ton - a player he personally drove that club towards signing) needs to be a priority in the next 2-3 windows.

Obviously, a central midfielder to take over from Barry is a must, and then Barkley needs to up his game. A creative player for either a Barkley alternative or either one of the wings.

Goalkeeper too but, as I said in the transfer thread, I can't see the quality we require in that position (e.g. another side's No.1) being available in January.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

What the hell happened to Koeman ? Starts off well then starts chopping and changing the team, no consistency at all.

I thought his substitutions at Spurs, West Ham and formation at Chelsea absoloutly stunk of Martinez, but because we got three points at WHU and one vs Spurs, we got away with it. The palace game was poorly managed too.

When we are under pressure, he puts on Cleverly and takes off Mirallas every game, instead he should be bringing on another attacker to get us up the pitch. Im sorry but if Martinez done that and we conceded we would all be calling for his head- @davek you may actually be able to back me up on that given last year.

edit: What the hell has Lennon and Delboy done to upset him ?

 

[BlueToff]

What the hell happened to Koeman ? Starts off well then starts chopping and changing the team, no consistency at all.

I thought his substitutions at Spurs, West Ham and formation at Chelsea absoloutly stunk of Martinez, but because we got three points at WHU and one vs Spurs, we got away with it. The palace game was poorly managed too.

When we are under pressure, he puts on Cleverly and takes off Mirallas every game, instead he should be bringing on another attacker to get us up the pitch. Im sorry but if Martinez done that and we conceded we would all be calling for his head- @davek you may actually be able to back me up on that given last year.

edit: What the hell has Lennon and Delboy done to upset him ?

He literally put another attacker on against Chelsea the other day.

That worked well didn't it...

And Lennon also came on.

 

[Ashtonian]

The most annoying thing is, the West Ham game just last week showed how effective these players can be when they play with pace.

While we have quick players, we haven't played with pace (on the whole) for the past few years. No movement whatsever.

That being said, the fact that (regardless of who we have played) we are still seventh shows to me that we are firmly in with the shout of 'best of the rest' (and tbh the only thing that is going to keep Utd just above us will be their 'star' power).

While I don't want that to be all Everton offer, I'd take it as a step in the right direction.

The other night was a disgrace and it's all about the reaction now, but it did show how thread-bare the squad is in terms of quality (McCarthy and Gueye out and suddenly our midfield is in tatters).

The re-build isn't as big as everyone is saying, but the spine of the team needs a re-jig.

I think Williams is showing he'll be here for the next 2-3 years with that quality, but a new centre-half capable of playing the ball out from the back but also defending (and for all Koeman's detractors, he had this with VVD at S'ton - a player he personally drove that club towards signing) needs to be a priority in the next 2-3 windows.

Obviously, a central midfielder to take over from Barry is a must, and then Barkley needs to up his game. A creative player for either a Barkley alternative or either one of the wings.

Goalkeeper too but, as I said in the transfer thread, I can't see the quality we require in that position (e.g. another side's No.1) being available in January.

I Disagree. There is a massive need for a rebuild of the squad as a whole. So many players who need replacing and offer very little for their role in the squad and yet they are key players in either the first team or as backs ups. For arguments sake, can you argue against the following players not being good enough for the squad?

1. Niasse- Obviously
2. Kone- not prem quality anymore
3. Gibson- Rarely gets on the pitch
4. Besic- Quality but injured every season for large chunks
5. Oviedo- Same reason, injury prone every year
6. Cleverley- Offers nothing extra in the team, often worse than who he replaces
7. Valencia- a loan but still a terrible player and will offer nothing.


That is 7 of the squad just off the top of my head there. so nearly a third of the squad, 3 CM , 3 strikers, our back up full back. All are either not good enough for anything in the top half of the league quality wise and offer very little as back up also. Remember this is not how competent they are, is judging their level against where we want the team to be.

I believe there are more that are just not good enough in the grand scheme of things but i will omit them as they are better than the above. Either way, 7 of our 25 squad is not good enough or offer nothing squad wise to play top half football never mind to be competing for european places.

 

[davek]

What the hell happened to Koeman ? Starts off well then starts chopping and changing the team, no consistency at all.

I thought his substitutions at Spurs, West Ham and formation at Chelsea absoloutly stunk of Martinez, but because we got three points at WHU and one vs Spurs, we got away with it. The palace game was poorly managed too.

When we are under pressure, he puts on Cleverly and takes off Mirallas every game, instead he should be bringing on another attacker to get us up the pitch. Im sorry but if Martinez done that and we conceded we would all be calling for his head- @davek you may actually be able to back me up on that given last year.

edit: What the hell has Lennon and Delboy done to upset him ?

I only know that last season we beat them twice...handily.

 

[BlueToff]

I Disagree. There is a massive need for a rebuild of the squad as a whole. So many players who need replacing and offer very little for their role in the squad and yet they are key players in either the first team or as backs ups. For arguments sake, can you argue against the following players not being good enough for the squad?

1. Niasse- Obviously
2. Kone- not prem quality anymore
3. Gibson- Rarely gets on the pitch
4. Besic- Quality but injured every season for large chunks
5. Oviedo- Same reason, injury prone every year
6. Cleverley- Offers nothing extra in the team, often worse than who he replaces
7. Valencia- a loan but still a terrible player and will offer nothing.


That is 7 of the squad just off the top of my head there. so nearly a third of the squad, 3 CM , 3 strikers, our back up full back. All are either not good enough for anything in the top half of the league quality wise and offer very little as back up also. Remember this is not how competent they are, is judging their level against where we want the team to be.

I believe there are more that are just not good enough in the grand scheme of things but i will omit them as they are better than the above. Either way, 7 of our 25 squad is not good enough or offer nothing squad wise to play top half football never mind to be competing for european places.

But none of those squad are being used (bar Clevs or Oviedo, who I agree need replacing).

A 're-build' means changing most of the first-team.

There's three-to-four first-team players that need moving on or dropping, and replacing with new signings.

January is the time where one or two of those additions need to be made (ideally, we'd get them all in, but it just won't happen).

I'm not arguing about those players you list having to be moved on btw, and replacing with quality. I just don't know if that's a 're-build'.

 

[BlueToff]

I only know that last season we beat them twice...handily.

Koeman had never lost to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge before the other night...

It's irrelevant.