Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

Why should it needed to have been in tatters when someone like Davuies is there to be used and is a very good young player?

Instead of keeping the team and shape that won against WHU and replacing Gueye with Davies Koeman tore the whole thing up needlessly and tried to out-Chelsea Chelsea....and I think he went three at the back because he didn't want to leave Jagielka out again...which is a crazy decision.

He clearly went with a back three to try and match them man for man. In hindsight, a mistake, but if you look back on here there were several posters (myself included) who thought that might be a reasonable tact.

The gameplan fell apart with two goalkeeping errors.

After that the performance from players and manager alike wasn't up to scratch.

 

[BlueToff]

All those two other times he's been there! Well he has now, big time.

Four, actually.

What was Roberto's record at Anfield like again?

But anyway, last year we played a Chelsea side that finished 10th. Just saying...

 

[davek]

He clearly went with a back three to try and match them man for man. In hindsight, a mistake, but if you look back on here there were several posters (myself included) who thought that might be a reasonable tact.

The gameplan fell apart with two goalkeeping errors.

After that the performance from players and manager alike wasn't up to scratch.

Reasonable game plan against Chelsea's pace up front to have two slowing 30-odd year olds and a CB better suited to creating havoc in the opposition box tracking them?

That's what Koeman gets paid £6M to visualise. WTF was going on inside his head when he hatched a plan like THAT!

 

[Ashtonian]

But none of those squad are being used.

A 're-build' means changing most of the first-team.

There's three-to-four first-team players that need moving on or dropping, and replacing with new signings.

January is the time where one or two of those additions need to be made (ideally, we'd get them all in, but it just won't happen).

I also believe large chunks of the first team are quite poor as well but that is another discussion.

But again i disagree, a rebuild is the squad not the first team. The players i named above, 3 of them are our back up in the middle, so its either barry/gueye or them, McCarthy still not fit so far. So them not being good enough affects the team when we inevitebly get injuries/suspensions. Same as up top, we have nothing to offer a goal threat if our only one is injured, and 2 of the three have been signed in the past 2 windows. Straight away that puts us at a massive disadvantage in the middle and up front which is a joke really.

You can't expect a team to go through a whole season with the same 11 playing, so rebuilding the squad is very much a viable thing, as it is them who are meant to keep the team going and force their way into it, we haven't got a single player in that squad who can force an existing one out, which is as bad as any team who will spend the season struggling to stay up.

And side note- Bolaisie/Lennon/Del/McCarthy/Mori/Jags/Stek/Robles/lesser extent barry+gueye are all nowhere near the level either in my opinion. We think they are better than what they are, only for me, rom, ross (when he turns up), kev, williams, baines, coleman are genuinely top 6 level players.

 

[banno]

We have a pressing game without having players who can press.
A keeper who doesn't belong anywhere near the top half of the Prem, barely passable defensive cover. We rely on a 35 year old in midfield, and our attacking players are ALL horribly inconsistent.

Massive rebuild required.

Spot on.

 

[davek]

Four, actually.

What was Roberto's record at Anfield like again?

But anyway, last year we played a Chelsea side that finished 10th. Just saying...

He's gone mate. This is Koeman. He's just led us to one of our greatest ever post war thrashings.

 

[BlueToff]

Reasonable game plan against Chelsea's pace up front to have two slowing 30-odd year olds and a CB better suited to creating havoc in the opposition box tracking them?

That's what Koeman gets paid £6M to visualise. WTF was going on inside his head when he hatched a plan like THAT!

As I said, he went to try and match them. It didn't work. But neither did S'ton sticking with their diamond the week before, or United going with their 6-4-0...

 

[Mountfield1985]

Why should it needed to have been in tatters when someone like Davuies is there to be used and is a very good young player?

Instead of keeping the team and shape that won against WHU and replacing Gueye with Davies Koeman tore the whole thing up needlessly and tried to out-Chelsea Chelsea....and I think he went three at the back because he didn't want to leave Jagielka out again...which is a crazy decision.

But they did put 4 past United the other week, who were playing in our usual formation.

And I think it actually got worse for us when we switched to a back 4.

We were just totally outclassed in every department. Yes Koeman should have set them up better and I hope he learns from this, but above all I think this was a huge wake up call that these players are nowhere near the level required.

 

[BlueToff]

He's gone mate. This is Koeman. He's just led us to one of our greatest ever post war thrashings.

And it was disgraceful.

But just as it wasn't all down to Roberto when we got thrashed at Anfield, it isn't all down to Koeman.

He got it wrong. pretty sure he'll know that. The players were dreadful, pretty sure they'll all know that as well.

 

[davek]

As I said, he went to try and match them. It didn't work. But neither did S'ton sticking with their diamond the week before, or United going with their 6-4-0...

He went to try and match them with no pace in the back three apart from Mori. Smart move.

 

[BlueToff]

I also believe large chunks of the first team are quite poor as well but that is another discussion.

But again i disagree, a rebuild is the squad not the first team. The players i named above, 3 of them are our back up in the middle, so its either barry/gueye or them, McCarthy still not fit so far. So them not being good enough affects the team when we inevitebly get injuries/suspensions. Same as up top, we have nothing to offer a goal threat if our only one is injured, and 2 of the three have been signed in the past 2 windows. Straight away that puts us at a massive disadvantage in the middle and up front which is a joke really.

You can't expect a team to go through a whole season with the same 11 playing, so rebuilding the squad is very much a viable thing, as it is them who are meant to keep the team going and force their way into it, we haven't got a single player in that squad who can force an existing one out, which is as bad as any team who will spend the season struggling to stay up.

And side note- Bolaisie/Lennon/Del/McCarthy/Mori/Jags/Stek/Robles/lesser extent barry+gueye are all nowhere near the level either in my opinion. We think they are better than what they are, only for me, rom, ross (when he turns up), kev, williams, baines, coleman are genuinely top 6 level players.

Fair enough Ash - we do agree, just maybe not on the semantics.

On your last point like, frigging hell, how can you put Kev in that top six bracket yet not include Bolasie/Del?

Bolasie at least creates - still in the top few for assists this season in the league. I don't not like Kev, but he's been crap.

 

[davek]

But they did put 4 past United the other week, who were playing in our usual formation.

And I think it actually got worse for us when we switched to a back 4.

We were just totally outclassed in every department. Yes Koeman should have set them up better and I hope he learns from this, but above all I think this was a huge wake up call that these players are nowhere near the level required.

...and Arsenal and Spurs hammered them.

As for United: no two games are the same and different circumstances led to United's downfall there than ours.

 

[BlueToff]

He went to try and match them with no pace in the back three apart from Mori. Smart move.

Ironically enough Mori was the worst performer out of any of them like.

 

[TrixyStevens]

Time to solidify the back four. Hopefully Baines is in after the internationals. Tyias Browning is returning from injury, he could be used at centre half. Holgate in at right full as Coleman has been woeful the last while.
Jagielka is not at the level of PL defender anymore. Funes Mori looks ok beside Williams but still a liability.

RB-Holgate
CB-Browning/Mori
CB-Williams
LB-Baines

 

[BlueToff]

...and Arsenal and the RS hammered them.

As for United: no two games are the same and different circumstances led to United's downfall there than ours.

Arsenal and Spurs hammered them before Conte switched to a back three.

Since doing so they have won four games on the bounce, scoring 16 without conceding.

I'm not at all making excuses for our display, which was the worst I've seen us put in since Anfield in April and, well, that was the worst I'd seen us ever, probably.

Totally abject from all involved, but hind-sights a great thing.

Matching them up wasn't our issue. Our issue was we were being outclassed and then two almighty cock-ups led to our defence collapsing.

Given how much we'd generally improved in that department, it's a real worry.

Squad's not good enough, think that's plain for all to see.