Ronald Koeman discussion

[John Osters Love Child]

Chelsea were exceptional in every department. As bad as we were they were incredible.
By the time Koeman changed from 3 at the back we were two goals down against a team what doesn't concede goals. Their 3 centre backs hardly crossed the half way line making any counter attacking impossible and we had essentially only 2 midfielders in Ross and Cleverley (less said about him the better) because Coleman, Oviedo and Barry had to spend the entire game defending.

Koeman, in my opinion got several things wrong but Chelsea were so good i don't know if any other formation or starting line-up would have fared any better. With Barry now suspended and Cleverley showing once again he is the footballing equivalent of the ebola virus, hopefully we'll see the manager give the likes of Tom Davis a run out because we seriously lack legs in that midfield.

 

[Mountfield1985]

Chelsea were exceptional in every department. As bad as we were they were incredible.
By the time Koeman changed from 3 at the back we were two goals down against a team what doesn't concede goals. Their 3 centre backs hardly crossed the half way line making any counter attacking impossible and we had essentially only 2 midfielders in Ross and Cleverley (less said about him the better) because Coleman, Oviedo and Barry had to spend the entire game defending.

Koeman, in my opinion got several things wrong but Chelsea were so good i don't know if any other formation or starting line-up would have fared any better. With Barry now suspended and Cleverley showing once again he is the footballing equivalent of the ebola virus, hopefully we'll see the manager give the likes of Tom Davis a run out because we seriously lack legs in that midfield.

Spot on mate.

 

[Nil Satis Niasse Optimum]

No excuses whatsoever to be smashed 5-0 by Chelsea. Anybody making them needs to have a word with themselves.

 

[MikeH72]

No excuses whatsoever to be smashed 5-0 by Chelsea. Anybody making them needs to have a word with themselves.

Who's made an excuse?

 

[Nil Satis Niasse Optimum]

Who's made an excuse?

Plenty.

"Chelsea were amazing, unplayable, world class, unstoppable"

Rubbish. It's a disgrace to get smashed 5-0 by them, and it could very easily have been much worse.

 

[maccavennie]

Plenty.

"Chelsea were amazing, unplayable, world class, unstoppable"

Rubbish. It's a disgrace to get smashed 5-0 by them, and it could very easily have been much worse.

Apart from the 4th goal as well all of the goals were avoidable. Down to absolutely piss poor players lacking concentration ( known as Steklenberg) handing them a 2 goal lead.

We needed everyone to be absolutely bang at it to get a result and not one of them put in the required effort. I can stomach getting beat 5-0 if we've at least put the effort in but the way they just waltzed around was an embarrassment.

 

[MikeH72]

Plenty.

"Chelsea were amazing, unplayable, world class, unstoppable"

Rubbish. It's a disgrace to get smashed 5-0 by them, and it could very easily have been much worse.

Saying Chelsea were good is not an excuse, everyone has also acknowledged that we were rank as well. It's possible for us to have been crap and them to have played well at the same time you know.

 

[degsy]

Plenty.

"Chelsea were amazing, unplayable, world class, unstoppable"

Rubbish. It's a disgrace to get smashed 5-0 by them, and it could very easily have been much worse.

It was a disgrace, we DID find them unplayable, we couldn't stop them, compared to us they were amazing...don't see what you're moaning about if that's what people are saying.

 

[joseph]

A lot of these players are damaged goods. Mentally and physically weak. I sympathise with Koeman. He is trying to get blood out of a stone.
I hope Walsh is working day and night to identify suitable and realistic replacements.

 

[Lanolin]

A lot of these players are damaged goods. Mentally and physically weak. I sympathise with Koeman. He is trying to get blood out of a stone.
I hope Walsh is working day and night to identify suitable and realistic replacements.

That's just an excuse though. 3 of the 11 that got pulverised on Saturday were Koeman's signings, with another one so bad that he wasn't even deemed good enough to bring on in such an embarrassment. Stekelenburg was probably the worst player on the pitch, and Bolasie and Williams were no better than any of the others out there. We can't blame the failings of the past forever, at some point we have to accept that mistakes are still being made now.

 

[joseph]

That's just an excuse though. 3 of the 11 that got pulverised on Saturday were Koeman's signings, with another one so bad that he wasn't even deemed good enough to bring on in such an embarrassment. Stekelenburg was probably the worst player on the pitch, and Bolasie and Williams were no better than any of the others out there. We can't blame the failings of the past forever, at some point we have to accept that mistakes are still being made now.

He has to accept some responsibility, of course, but you can't hang the entire thing on him. I won't criticize him on his signings because that last transfer window was a cock up on all levels. Williams and Bolasie might turn out to be good buys but we will only be able to judge over the season. IMO, they were panic buys though.
If, after the next 2 transfer windows, we are still getting these types of results and performances, then I will place the blame at Koemans feet.

The spine of this team have a history of bottling it. They have to be phased out as quickly as possible if we are going to see any success.

 

[Lanolin]

He has to accept some responsibility, of course, but you can't hang the entire thing on him. I won't criticize him on his signings because that last transfer window was a cock up on all levels. Williams and Bolasie might turn out to be good buys but we will only be able to judge over the season. IMO, they were panic buys though.
If, after the next 2 transfer windows, we are still getting these types of results and performances, then I will place the blame at Koemans feet.

The spine of this team have a history of bottling it. They have to be phased out as quickly as possible if we are going to see any success.

I'm not blaming it all on Koeman by any means but we've heard all this rubbish about mentalities etc before. Three of the eleven have only played for us for us this season, but their mentality doesn't seem to have helped us judging by Saturday's performance.

Under Martinez everybody said he was changing the mentality and attitudes and it was the old Moyes players that were the problem. Only 5 of the team on Saturday ever played under Moyes, and Barkley, Mirallas and Oviedo have all played much more of their football for us under other managers. Only Jagielka and Coleman are of the 'old school' generation that were seen as bottlers, and that's probably harsh on Coleman who only caught the tail end of that period. The point is, we made excuses for Martinez for years and now people are starting to do the same with Koeman. If there's an attitude/mentality issue then he needs to address it, that's his job and he gets paid an extortionate amount of money for doing it.

 

[joseph]

In relative terms, Koeman has hardly gotten his feet under the table yet. 11 games in and he is still learning what a mediocre squad he has inherited. He could see the mess we were in in pre-season already. That is why I absolve him of any blame this at this point.

There has been a malaise around this squad for a long time. I am not specifically talking about players dating back to the Moyes era. Even more recently, this group lost their s**t big time under Martinez (even though he was inept as well). When it comes to bottling it, even in that "famous" first season that everyone raves on about, they bottled it. We beat Arsenal and were in poll position to get 4th place. Forget 72 points. Our destiny was in our own hands. There is some kind of mental disease around the squad, mixed with too many egos and attitude problems, I suspect. It is okay for Gareth Bale or Ronaldo to have that type of ego when they are producing week in and week out, but not some of these jokers. That may sound like hyperbole, but okay....

Supposedly, we have the money now. So let's wait and see if we can recruit a higher standard of player and if Koeman can do the business with them. He has this season and the beginning of next season for me, barring a series of more disastrous results/performances.

*meant to quote the above poster

 

[BlueToff]

He has to accept some responsibility, of course, but you can't hang the entire thing on him. I won't criticize him on his signings because that last transfer window was a cock up on all levels. Williams and Bolasie might turn out to be good buys but we will only be able to judge over the season. IMO, they were panic buys though.
If, after the next 2 transfer windows, we are still getting these types of results and performances, then I will place the blame at Koemans feet.

The spine of this team have a history of bottling it. They have to be phased out as quickly as possible if we are going to see any success.

Williams - great signing, in no way a panic.

Gueye - same as Williams.

Bolasie - he's frustrating and inconsistent. He's already created the most clear-cut chances in the league though and is our top assister.

 

[joseph]

Williams - great signing, in no way a panic.

Gueye - same as Williams.

Bolasie - he's frustrating and inconsistent. He's already created the most clear-cut chances in the league though and is our top assister.

I meant panic buys in the sense that, if we had not missed out on other targets and were running out of time with the Stones money burning a hole in our pocket, they were never in a million years our first or even second choices.

Doesn't mean I don't rate them though. Once again, only 11 games in to the season.