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Ross Barkley

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Nails said:
I'm probably with you on this. When the rumours started flying around about Moyes going to Spurs I actually came to realise how much Moyes has done for Everton with the transfer net he gets. I feared for our drop without him. He may be on more money than a lot of other decent managers, but does their difference in wages equate to a better gain in the transfer market?
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Agreed
My biggest worry would be the players leaving.
Think a lot of them are staying there because they believe in Moyes
 
Artetafan said:
Ha ha, that's boss.

I don't actually hate Moyes and I even think he's done by and large a very good job. But I think we've reached a point where his flaws are holding us back and another manager could do better.

But I understand why you love him, like.
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My sentiments exactly Artetafan
 
tonka1878 said:
And watch them drown? Or you could do as most people who are learning to swim do, start in the kiddy pool with the wings on then progress to the shallow end of the big pool before you decide to start racing against Michael Phelps and all the while just making sure you dont sink (under the expectation).
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Skink or swim.

The problem has always been dumping the kids if they fail at the first hurdle rather than work with them and give them time.

I remember Pep Guardiola saying Xavi wasn't all that as a kid but stepped up when he turned 19.
 

kenada_blue said:
Skink or swim.

The problem has always been dumping the kids if they fail at the first hurdle rather than work with them and give them time.

I remember Pep Guardiola saying Xavi wasn't all that as a kid but stepped up when he turned 19.
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Dumping them? They (Barkley, Rodwell, Gueye whoever?) still train with the first team and are in and around the matchday squad unless their specific position has more senior cover, which in Barkleys case was 3/4 players last year. So he drops down to the ressies-U19s and continues his football education, something which was severly hampered by a double leg break not 2 years ago. He isn't the saviour just yet, ask me again in eighteen months and it might be a different answer.
 
MoutsGoat said:
Anyway :

Wayne Rooney 67 apps as an 18 year old
Jack Rodwell 85 apps as a 21 year old
Marouane Fellaini 15m for a 21 year old 137 apps

If they are good enough, they get on the pitch.
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Thats the issue for me though.

I'm not, and never have claimed that we have the next Messi in our ranks and are holding him back.

But its easy to play a plyer who "is good enough" isn't it, thats pretty obvious.

You get those kind of players, then you get players who are completly gash and should be nowhere near the first team, of which i'm sure we had plenty over the years.

But you;re then left with the players in the middle, players who are good, show potential but you're not sure about them, could play in the first team and gop on to be awesome, or could go on to stink.

But you GIVE THEM A CHANCE, you take the small risk of them screwing up because thats balanced out by the possibility of finding a decent squad player ala Osman/Hibbert/Anichebe.

We could quite easily give a young player a run of a few games in the team to see how he gets on, but we don't.

Like ive asked before, when was the last time a young player at Everton got a run of at least 6 games in the first team while a more experienced players in that position sat on the bench? Even 3 games and i'm struggling. Rodwell probably, and he debuted 5 years ago.

They could be gash. They could be great. But they weren't given the chance.
 
MoutsGoat said:
But to answer your question Death.

Rodwell, Fellaini, Gosling.
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You know very well that Fellaini doesn't count, its not just age which is the issue but the lack of experience that usually comes with it. 2 seasons in the Belgian top flight and Europe playing 84 games disqualifies him.

I'd forgot about Gosling, he's good example. He only made 22 appearances and was a bit gash but was versatile and would of been useful if he hadn't of buggered off. Don;t think he got much of a decent run though, more sub and erratic starts wasn't it.

But he debuted in 2008.

You'd of thought that considering we didn't buy a bloody player for 2 and a half seasons that even more youth players would of been given decent runs in the first team.

But they didn't. Plenty sat on the bench and played when we had no choice though.
 

Walken said:
you might well be right mate, i hope you are, but it doesnt make Moyes beyond question, sycophantic acceptance of everything your gaffer does is for that horrible lot across the park, granted I accept I can too far the other way and do enjoy a pop at old rusty balls
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Have seen him play and he still very raw, his passing is sloppy sometimes, but Moyes will be working on it, Moyes tried him last season and you could see that he wasnt quite ready, he could be ready this season and he will get another chance but for now let him grow with no pressure on his shoulders, he also use to worry about getting injured as well, Moyes would play him if he was ready and it could be very soon.
 
Walken said:
played out of position in an emergency, and possibly ruined to some extent by never getting any experience in his suited position
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But he's still got 50+ caps and has gained first team experience before he does end up in his natural position, something I think we will finally see more of this season.
 
tonka1878 said:
Dumping them? They (Barkley, Rodwell, Gueye whoever?) still train with the first team and are in and around the matchday squad unless their specific position has more senior cover, which in Barkleys case was 3/4 players last year. So he drops down to the ressies-U19s and continues his football education, something which was severly hampered by a double leg break not 2 years ago. He isn't the saviour just yet, ask me again in eighteen months and it might be a different answer.
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What I said was a blanket statement for the predicament clubs face in the premiership. The problem has always been to buy in cheaper foreign players and sell the young english lads if they dont cut the grade at the first attempt.

We've had plenty through the ranks at Everton. Time is not a virtue in the EPL. Yet in Spain and Germany etc they spend time and work with them before saying goodbye rather than wait till they're 20 and ship them out.

We've got a youth team that won the Under 19s North League against the likes of United, City and the RS, yet you'll hedge a bet that maybe 1 will break through or be given a chance. Then there's Wallace, Baxter, McAleny, who have gone off to play more football (McAleny doesnt seem like he'll be here to long either) where we're given a small transfer fee but have massive sell on clauses stuck on them.

Im not having a go and saying these players shouldnt have been flogged. But IMO for the past 2 seasons I think we should be blooding and giving kids more and more game time from the basic fact that we're not really challenging for stuff apart from the 7th place goblet.

And with the way our club is ran, the more you put the kids on show, the more money you'll get for them
 

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