Ross Barkley

[Charles Hawtrey]

View attachment 14434

Moss Eisley

 

[Walken]

Hodgson had Wilshere, Barkley and Oxlade Chamberlain on the bench last World Cup. Apparently Gerrard Henderson and Milner despite failing in the euros were a better option though. Lo and behold we got exactly the same result. English sport in general is exactly the same. We experiment in qualifiers letting people think we're going to trust young attacking talent, but as soon as a game of note arrives English coaches fall back on safety first conservative defensive experience.

the rugby world cup being another case in point

 

[bluemangroup]

probably saying the same stuff our clueless 'grafter loving' brigade have been saying on here for a few seasons

You seemingly can't conceive of a world where both types of players exist in harmony on a pitch.

 

[dandydan]

Neil Warnock coming out with some absolute tosh about Ross on talk sport. No wonder he is an abysmal manager. He belongs with all the other dinosaurs and is displaying the exact sort of attitude that stops England from winning anything. Roll on another tournament of watching yard dogs like Milner Henderson and Delph chasing the shadows of international midfielders.

Big, strong, fast lads. Run through brick walls for the shirt etc etc.

 

[Walken]

You seemingly can't conceive of a world where both types of players exist in harmony on a pitch.

I think if you are going to get to the top, the grafters need to have a good standard of ability football wise, they are dead weight when in possession otherwise, the thing that annoys me is that seems to be an acceptable pay off for most, where as if it's the other way round and flair players are occasionally dead weight while not in possession, it's a crime of the highest order, and any mistake they make highlighted to the point where these players are afraid to play, English football is littered throughout history with top class talent that were never allowed to breathe, if we had been winning trophies the grafters would have an argument, but they are simply happy to compete safely, rather than understanding at the highest level of sport preparation and safety only gets you so far, ever now and again you have to take a leap of faith

 

[peteblue]

warnock would probably have a prime gazza sitting on the bench mate, hes an absolute t!t

Warnock played for 8 naff clubs, he then managed 14 naff clubs, his wiki page mostly consists of people he has had a feud with. How anyone could possibly take anything this journeyman says without laughing is beyond me......

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

I think if you are going to get to the top, the grafters need to have a good standard of ability football wise, they are dead weight when in possession otherwise, the thing that annoys me is that seems to be an acceptable pay off for most, where as if it's the other way round and flair players are occasionally dead weight while not in possession, it's a crime of the highest order, and any mistake they make highlighted to the point where these players are afraid to play, English football is littered throughout history with top class talent that were never allowed to breathe, if we had been winning trophies the grafters would have an argument, but they are simply happy to compete safely, rather than understanding at the highest level of sport preparation and safety only gets you so far, ever now and again you have to take a leap of faith

Its the British way.... they don't like it up 'em.
Moyes tried to have Ross 'work on his defence' remember, after he pulled him out of the team... it is what makes British football Sooo pedestrian. Think about it, flair players in our squad in the last 5 years..... (not including tricky wingers like Gerri or Drenthe)

 

[Walken]

Its the British way.... they don't like it up 'em.
Moyes tried to have Ross 'work on his defence' remember, after he pulled him out of the team... it is what makes British football Sooo pedestrian. Think about it, flair players in our squad in the last 5 years..... (not including tricky wingers like Gerri or Drenthe)

Moyes trusted neville with a CM position before he did with Arteta, no really

 

[Saint Domingo]

Moyes trusted neville with a CM position before he did with Arteta, no really

Moyes recognised the need for flair (Arteta, Pienaar Osman Mirallas etc,) but never trusted it enough in the middle. Martinez is somewhat the same, two holding mids in the middle. Ferguson though went with a midfield two of Scholes and Carrick, neither were physical, neither quick, neither could defend. Did they need to? No. Just great players dictating play from the middle without this fixation on defensive solidity. Probably why United won everything at a time when everyone kept saying 442 was naive, dead, ridiculous, backwards.

 

[Walken]

Moyes recognised the need for flair (Arteta, Pienaar Osman Mirallas etc,) but never trusted it enough in the middle. Martinez is somewhat the same, two holding mids in the middle. Ferguson though went with a midfield two of Scholes and Carrick, neither were physical, neither quick, neither could defend. Did they need to? No. Just great players dictating play from the middle without this fixation on defensive solidity. Probably why United won everything at a time when everyone kept saying 442 was naive, dead, ridiculous, backwards.

At the highest level you need ability and control in the center when in possession, that's how you win games, Pirlo and Scholes being good examples, when Arteta was finally moved to CM being a good example for us, Barry isn't completely useless in possession but his passing is massively overrated by his fan club. The derby highlighted how this can be a shortfall for us with our current set up, Ross picking the ball up in dangerous spots, keeping it and looking to get things going, to play off in front of him he had Naismith who is appalling, gerry was having an off day though still didn't hide, and behind he to play off he had barry and macarthy, without baines and coleman bombing forward, he really struggled to find anyone to link up with, and the manager never really solved that problem during the game, looking happy not to lose for the first 70 mins, which was a shame because Ross looked on it for me

 

[Pabbers]

The Irony of English looking for defensive qualities first.....the prem has the worst defences in Europe!!!

 

[bluemangroup]

Oh good a rant.

 

[zirc]

Basically saying Ross has no defensive instinct, you have to carry him in your team as a luxury player, he'll do pirouettes and drag backs in his own half if you give him the ball etc. Roy would be better going with a more disciplined defensive player. Warnock has obviously not watched Ross this season, his ball retention has been brilliant apart from when trying things in the final third.

This is why Colin is on the radio and not managing a football club.

 

[bluemangroup]

At the highest level you need ability and control in the center when in possession, that's how you win games, Pirlo and Scholes being good examples, when Arteta was finally moved to CM being a good example for us, Barry isn't completely useless in possession but his passing is massively overrated by his fan club. The derby highlighted how this can be a shortfall for us with our current set up, Ross picking the ball up in dangerous spots, keeping it and looking to get things going, to play off in front of him he had Naismith who is appalling, gerry was having an off day though still didn't hide, and behind he to play off he had barry and macarthy, without baines and coleman bombing forward, he really struggled to find anyone to link up with, and the manager never really solved that problem during the game, looking happy not to lose for the first 70 mins, which was a shame because Ross looked on it for me

Ok that I won't disagree with you on actually. I think Barry's position is one where either Ckeverly or Besic can really compete for and make us that little bit more dynamic and offensive. Barry doesn't commit anyone and is only good to be passed back to when we've run out of options. Puts way too much pressure on some of our creative players.

 

[Nymzee]

Man United were only successful with 2 centre-mids who were less inclined to defend (although Carrick isn't bad at it) because they spent the majority of the game in possession and scoring goals. Defensive midfielders automatically become unimportant the minute you have the ball in essence.