Ross Barkley

[SpudULike]

Just shows the RS have spent 24 million a season to get nowhere. Difference is they have the income to get away with it. If we spent that for the last 5 seasons we would be bankrupt by now.

RS = Liverpool? What does RS mean in reference to Liverpool?

 

[AndyC]

RS = Liverpool? What does RS mean in reference to Liverpool?

r = red
s = poo that rhymes with bite

 

[roydo]

RS = Liverpool? What does RS mean in reference to Liverpool?

Red Sweary Word.

 

[vagant59]

Did they have a billionaire backing them who is prepared to spend a lot of cash on them like we ha...hold on....

Your sounding like a spoil't child stamping their feet

 

[davek]

I'm a Spurs fan and came on here to see what your views were about Barkley leaving as our itk is suggesting this transfer could be drawn out over the summer. Anyway I was interested to read that the debate has moved to 'net spend' which is often the case of the Spurs forums. Davek has a point. The league does tend to mirror what teams spend is where they end up. Leicester last season was a fluke that will probably never happen again.

Spurs keep punching above their weight but ultimately we've not won anything again. It's just typical of us that this season's total would've won 8 Premier League titles in the past but this year the Russian mafia managed to buy the trophy again. Sa la vie. And this summer looks like breaking transfer records again.

The fact that we and yourselves compete is a miracle in itself. However I don't think Everton or Spurs chucking money at it will guarantee success. Ultimately it will be City, Utd and Chelsea competing for the big prizes again regardless of what we spend. I had a look at net spend for the last 5 years and these are the results:

Last 5 years:

View attachment 37841

Since oil money arrived in 2003 with the Russian mafia taking over Chelsea:

View attachment 37842

It does illustrate Davek's point about net spend to a degree.

We're punching above our weight due to Levy being able to buy low and sell high, a gift that many Spurs fans don't appreciate. Everton are another well run club that live within their means and punch above their weight. Just look at Sunderland, West Ham and Stoke to realise how well we're both doing.

You could chuck 200m at it but I don't think it will guarantee you success. City and Chelsea will just spend more. The TV money bubble will burst one day and it's the well run clubs like Everton, Southampton and Spurs that will prosper. Our time will come!

"It does illustrate Davek's point about net spend to a degree."

It completely vindicates it mate. Thanks for posting the data.

 

[davek]

Your sounding like a spoil't child stamping their feet

It's called ambition mate. Take a look at the data and tell me that I'm wrong about net spend and it's extremely close relationship to trophy success and top four spots.

If you want to be up there with the big boys then you better have the moolah to back up the brave words about getting in amongst them.

If not, just get out of the way of the PL's financial elite and stop whingeing about their successes. Simple as that. Survival of the fittest.

 

[Goat]

It's called ambition mate. Take a look at the data and tell me that I'm wrong about net spend and it's extremely close relationship to trophy success and top four spots.

If you want to be up there with the big boys then you better have the moolah to back up the brave words about getting in amongst them.

If not, just get out of the way of the PL's financial elite and stop whingeing about their successes. Simple as that. Survival of the fittest.

But its about sustainable income David, building a foundation that allows us the scope to invest in the playing side without putting us in danger, Moshiri is aware that we cant compete with words alone.

 

[davek]

But its about sustainable income David, building a foundation that allows us the scope to invest in the playing side without putting us in danger, Moshiri is aware that we cant compete with words alone.

...then maybe he shouldn't come in here talking about retaining our best players by 'showing them that we can compete'. He set the tone last summer and it never transpired. But then the plan all along has been to sell off players and make transfer windows pretty much pay for themselves.

It's a far cry from the heady days of last spring when everything was 'possible', that's for sure. Which is fair enough, tbf, as long as he acknowledges that this will be the case (plate spinning) and that a stadium build is the number one priority. He wont though, so we have to go through the charade of buying players and lauding the 'great leap forward' until our top players are sold in order for everyone to see it really isn't any different to before.

 

[Goat]

...then maybe he shouldn't come in here talking about retaining our best players by 'showing them that we can compete'. He set the tone last summer and it never transpired. But then the plan all along has been to sell off players and make transfer windows pretty much pay for themselves.

It's a far cry from the heady days of last spring when everything was 'possible', that's for sure. Which is fair enough, tbf, as long as he acknowledges that this will be the case (plate spinning) and that a stadium build is the number one priority. He wont though, so we have to go through the charade of buying players and lauding the 'great leap forward' until our top players are sold in order for everyone to see it really isn't any different to before.

I said people would blame him if Barkley and Lukaku left, both are still here and both have been offered superb contracts that at this point, neither are willing to sign.

Last Summer was far from ideal, but the winter window and this current window suggest lessons have been learnt, just over 2 months of the window left, lets see what the final score is, currently tho Dave, you are getting utterly hammered 5-0.

 

[SpudULike]

"It does illustrate Davek's point about net spend to a degree."

It completely vindicates it mate. Thanks for posting the data.

I'm not sure it completely vindicates it. I think it should be measured against money spent. Spurs have spent £600m since 2003, double what Everton have spent and £150m more than Arsenal. We have managed to sell players for a similar amount because we lucked out on a number of players. Redknapp tried to sell Bale to Hamburg when Martin Jol took over there after we got shot of him. Jol said he was offered Bale for a about £3m and because Hamburg were broke it fell through. Our net spend wouldn't look so good if that deal had gone through.

AVB moved Bale into the middle with freedom to roam wherever he wanted and move forward a couple of season's and we sell him for £85m. We've sold the likes of Carrick, Keane, Berbatov and Modric for big money. I'm fairly sure we'll be selling Dier, Dele and Kane in the years to come for silly money too which will again make our net spend look good although we'll probably not win anything apart from the net spend league.

City, Utd and Chelsea can buy players in their prime for silly money and sell them when they're past their best for nothing and thus will always have a high net spend. Spurs and Everton can not do that and despite how much money we chuck at it we can't outspend them.

How much do you think Everton should spend and what will be your minimum measurement of success?

 

[davek]

I said people would blame him if Barkley and Lukaku left, both are still here and both have been offered superb contracts that at this point, neither are willing to sign.

Last Summer was far from ideal, but the winter window and this current window suggest lessons have been learnt, just over 2 months of the window left, lets see what the final score is, currently tho Dave, you are getting utterly hammered 5-0.

My take on it is consistent: regardless of keeping Barkley and Lukaku, I think Moshiri has the ability to make a massive statement and shut critics up. He does that by spending the Barkley and Lukaku cash if they do go - and all the other sales made - and spending a hefty wedge on top.

He stated about 9 months back that the club had a window of opportunity of two years to make a big leap forward. Well this represents his last big opportunity to make that happen. There must be a massive statement made this summer. If, however, all he has to offer is a small net spend on top of the cash from player sales then he's failed to meet his own target.

He has 10 weeks to knock this out of the park.

 

[roydo]

There must be a massive statement made this summer. If, however, all he has to offer is a small net spend on top of the cash from player sales then he's failed to meet his own target.

The facts are simple Dave.

So far, we have spent circa £60m on 3 players, in a week.

Rom and Ross both have improved contracts on the table, circa £240k pw combined. Cant force either to sign. And cant change them if they do sign.

Not entirely sure what else he could have done. So far, this window. (Last summer was a farce, and one day, the truth about why will come out I reckon).

 

[davek]

I'm not sure it completely vindicates it. I think it should be measured against money spent. Spurs have spent £600m since 2003, double what Everton have spent and £150m more than Arsenal. We have managed to sell players for a similar amount because we lucked out on a number of players. Redknapp tried to sell Bale to Hamburg when Martin Jol took over there after we got shot of him. Jol said he was offered Bale for a about £3m and because Hamburg were broke it fell through. Our net spend wouldn't look so good if that deal had gone through.

AVB moved Bale into the middle with freedom to roam wherever he wanted and move forward a couple of season's and we sell him for £85m. We've sold the likes of Carrick, Keane, Berbatov and Modric for big money. I'm fairly sure we'll be selling Dier, Dele and Kane in the years to come for silly money too which will again make our net spend look good although we'll probably not win anything apart from the net spend league.

City, Utd and Chelsea can buy players in their prime for silly money and sell them when they're past their best for nothing and thus will always have a high net spend. Spurs and Everton can not do that and despite how much money we chuck at it we can't outspend them.

How much do you think Everton should spend and what will be your minimum measurement of success?

We need to spend £50M net this summer. We have a team that needs gutting at the back completely and we need to add a different attacking unit if Lukaku is sold. We are blessed in only one department: midfield.

You have to understand the last couple of decades of our history to fully understand the friction over net spend. To be blunt, we have never seen much spending over and above what's brought in. That situation looked like ending when we got our 'billionaire'. However, it hasn't turned out that way so far and we still look to sell to buy.

All talk about not overplaying net spend has to be seen in that historical context. We've seen so many phonies and carpet baggers at this club the defences are set very high...and rightly so.

 

[davek]

The facts are simple Dave.

So far, we have spent circa £60m on 3 players, in a week.

Rom and Ross both have improved contracts on the table, circa £240k pw combined. Cant force either to sign. And cant change them if they do sign.

Not entirely sure what else he could have done. So far, this window. (Last summer was a farce, and one day, the truth about why will come out I reckon).

But you and I both know those fees are offset by the highly probable sale of Lukaku (and Barkley in all likelihood).

As for the contracts offered that pair: I dont accept the figures or the assumption that the club have any strong inclination to keep them given that their departures are required to pay for incoming players.

 

[roydo]

But you and I both know those fees are offset by the highly probable sale of Lukaku (and Barkley in all likelihood).

As for the contracts offered that pair: I dont accept the figures or the assumption that the club have any strong inclination to keep them given that their departures are required to pay for incoming players.

With respect, thats your conclusion.

The fact remains that Rom and Ross could sign them contracts tomorrow.

And we will still have spent £60m this last week.