Sam Allardyce

[Zezti]

Top 6 lads

 

[Bullet]

I just cannot understand the hate towards allardyce it makes no sense to me at all. He's got us solid and productive. If he stays then everything points to there being a very good chance we will progress and get better and better. Ok the football isn't the best ever but it's not awful and we are getting points and winning games. The football will improve with the signing of better players.

I just can't fathom why so many hate allardyce, I'm sure when he first joined and went on that good run there wasn't this level of hate towards him. He's said a couple of questionable things and that's all I can think that people hate, but no-one can question what he's done on the football side.

If he were to carry on which he probably will then there is a much better chance of a good season than if we were to get a total unknown like fonseca. Allardyce has made 2 great signings in walcott and tosun, he will know exactly what else is needed.

People saying things like it's the end of the world if allardyce stays. What on earth has he done to deserve that. Just really think about it for a second, He hasn't done anything wrong. All i can think is that some young fans want some fonseca type who will have us lingering in the bottom half of the table but at least they can tell their Liverpool mates we have an exotic European manager who isn't Sam Allardyce. God knows what the other reason would be.

But some manager who has never managed in the premier league before is not going to have a clue how to break the top 6. Allardyce is best placed. He can get the percentages needed to give us a further edge because it's that difficult to penetrate the top 6 now that we are going to need every edge we can get.

Starting a new project all over again is not the answer, it will much more likely put us back. It will be a gamble of... will he be the rare world class manager like pochettino. Or just another Martinez, Pellegrino, Silva, puel etc. Fonseca has won a league he's expected to win, he doesn't have the credentials and experience of allardyce. Stick with the guy who knows what we need and will get us to where we want to be.

Perception is everything. If we'd hired Simeone instead of Sam and he'd got the exact same results and performances the majority of those who are tearing ol gravy tits to shreds would be lauding Diego for a job well done.
"If we'd gone for that fat slug Allardyce he'd be crowing that 'he'd saved us' after we'd finished 15th. Diego has this shambles finishing 8th. The football hasn't been great at times but what can you expect with some of the dirge he has to work with? Once he has his own team and gets rid of the tripe we'll be flying."
Diego's status glamour and many trophies would inspire hope of success and pride that this winner had chosen us. Sam's rep as a relegation firefighter and lack of trophies inspire a negative outlook and embarrassment that our still 'big team' has sunk so low.
The 'logical' choice for Mosh is to stick with Sam and not gamble on the off chance that a Fonseca type is the next Pochetino. Sam is much more likely to get us Europe next season albeit with defensive football. (He's taken a shambolic team into top 6 on points since his first match). His methods, if sometimes dour, clearly work.
However perception is everything so we'll see...

 

[ilikecheese]

Perception is everything. If we'd hired Simeone instead of Sam and he'd got the exact same results and performances the majority of those who are tearing ol gravy tits to shreds would be lauding Diego for a job well done.
"If we'd gone for that fat slug Allardyce he'd be crowing that 'he'd saved us' after we'd finished 15th. Diego has this shambles finishing 8th. The football hasn't been great at times but what can you expect with some of the dirge he has to work with? Once he has his own team and gets rid of the tripe we'll be flying."
Diego's status glamour and many trophies would inspire hope of success and pride that this winner had chosen us. Sam's rep as a relegation firefighter and lack of trophies inspire a negative outlook and embarrassment that our still 'big team' has sunk so low.
The 'logical' choice for Mosh is to stick with Sam and not gamble on the off chance that a Fonseca type is the next Pochetino. Sam is much more likely to get us Europe next season albeit with defensive football. (He's taken a shambolic team into top 6 on points since his first match). His methods, if sometimes dour, clearly work.
However perception is everything so we'll see...

Yes. Hiring/getting Simeone would be perceived as a massive sign of ambition...across the entire league/Europe.

So what's your point?

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Perception is everything. If we'd hired Simeone instead of Sam and he'd got the exact same results and performances the majority of those who are tearing ol gravy tits to shreds would be lauding Diego for a job well done.
"If we'd gone for that fat slug Allardyce he'd be crowing that 'he'd saved us' after we'd finished 15th. Diego has this shambles finishing 8th. The football hasn't been great at times but what can you expect with some of the dirge he has to work with? Once he has his own team and gets rid of the tripe we'll be flying."
Diego's status glamour and many trophies would inspire hope of success and pride that this winner had chosen us. Sam's rep as a relegation firefighter and lack of trophies inspire a negative outlook and embarrassment that our still 'big team' has sunk so low.
The 'logical' choice for Mosh is to stick with Sam and not gamble on the off chance that a Fonseca type is the next Pochetino. Sam is much more likely to get us Europe next season albeit with defensive football. (He's taken a shambolic team into top 6 on points since his first match). His methods, if sometimes dour, clearly work.
However perception is everything so we'll see...

Allardyce did inherit a shambles.Of that there is no doubt.But apart from his his initial first month, it has been pretty dismal.Crap football, and our performances against the elite sides have been embarrassing.If we are going to be merely content with just making up the numbers, and abandoning all hope for the future, then Sam is the man.But i don't think this has anything to do with perception.If this football club is serious about rejoining the elite again, them Sam Allardyce is most definitely not the right manager for us.He was hired by an owner in a blind panic, and i think most of us are just counting down the days until his reign is over.

 

[Cels]

Be interesting to see what type of transfer budget Big Sam will be given for next season. Can't see Moshiri wanting to chance another £200m being washed down the drain, so could be a case of sell to buy, to a certain extent, and see how it goes from there.

 

[ilikecheese]

Here is my perception. Sam Allardyce is the best manager a club like Bolton will ever have and beyond that a relegation firewall.

He had an opportunity to manage a big club and failed to meet anything beyond short term expectations. He did nothing to change how he is perceived because he is what he is.

 

[Bullet]

Yes. Hiring/getting Simeone would be seen as a massive sign of ambition...across the entire league/Europe.

So what's your point?

Simple. The poster I replied to couldn't understand the hatred.
I pointed out that the exact same results / performances would provoke a dramatically different reaction in most if they were achieved by a more popular appointment. The more popular the appointment the more positive the interpretation of what's happened since.
Sam was a deeply unpopular choice. The objective evidence is unequivocal that he's achieved very good results given what preceeded his arrival. We're in 6th position on points for the over half season he's been here.
The assumption Fonseca / Silva would much more likely get us into the top 6 and Sam couldn't is very weak since he's already done so over half a season.
The assumption Fonseca / Silva would be more attacking is very strong giving our low shots on target stats under Sam.
Therefore those arguing they want more entertainment have a lot of merit but the rest of the hatred of Sam has little to do with football results and is mainly a reflection of a perception that existed before his appointment.

 

[ilikecheese]

Really struggling with Sam and Simeone being used as a comparison.

 

[JLW]

Really struggling with Sam and Simeone being used as a comparison.

Simeone is competing regular with Barca and Real Madrid arguably the 2 biggest clubs in world football, challenging for titles, latter stages of the CL, now in the Semi final of the Europa league... while Allardyce is the most sacked manager this league has had.....WHY? Because basically hes crap at his job..

THERE IS NO COMPARISON

 

[toffeejohn29]

And that's our problem right there. Not good enough. It's like boiling a frog. Increments. Before you know it, 9th, 10th is acceptable and so on.

If you are serious about competing even 2nd is nowhere. That messages has to be hammered throughout the club and the supporter base too. You win. Period. Everything else is irrelevant.

Once you get on the gravy train of accepting mediocrity, there is only one way. That's down. And there's a plethora of ex-Kopite talking heads that will gleefully cheer that narrative on.

We set our own agenda and expectations as supporters, brand everyone at the club to the furness of our motto. That's how you win. Ingrain it into their DNA. Acceptable losses? There's no such thing. Nothing is acceptable about a defeat, you surrendering jockey monkey Moshiri. Show some feckin pride.

Hopefully he'll grow a pair and the juries out on that. We'll see, tell you one thing though, he ain't gonna get the easy ride that Kernwright enjoyed.

Excellent post.

 

[tommytowne]

Be interesting to see what type of transfer budget Big Sam will be given for next season. Can't see Moshiri wanting to chance another £200m being washed down the drain, so could be a case of sell to buy, to a certain extent, and see how it goes from there.

Who amongst our present squad, Pickford excepted, would attract buyers willing to pay decent money?
Different last season with Lukaku.
We've don't have anybody decent enough to flog.

 

[Aries]

I wouldn’t be happy with Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew either, Allardyce is in that same bracket of crap manager. Their career win percentages say so.

Allardyce spent 50 million in the January window, those signings have helped beat the utter dross in this league to swell his points tally. Hughes and Pardew would more than likely have done likewise. People are also seriously underrating our squad to back claims that Allardyce has done very well. It isn’t on a par with the top 6 no, but it’s a lot better than the rest so nobody can claim he’s done remarkably well with a crap squad.

The point is, weren’t we all led to believe we had new ambitions to challenge the elite? Does Allardyce fit that criteria? Of course he bloody well doesn’t and that’s the whole point here.

Of course fans of other clubs and the media thinks he deserve to stay, they’re all quite happy for us to “know our place” and sit mid table and not threaten the elite. But that’s not good enough to US is it? I genuinely can’t believe people actually want him to stay next season. That’s just ambitionless sh!te and screams mediocrity.

I’m praying Moshiri is what we were led to believe, an ambitious investor who has eyes on breaking in to the elite. We don’t want to “just be a museum” remember?

I guess we’ll soon find out whether he actually IS ambitious, or he’s happy to plod along in mid table mediocrity like some of our fans.

 

[Harry73]

He's had money. Just prefers to blow on dross like Carroll, Nolan, van Aanholt, and no marks like Schluup for 13m.

Also please don't compare us to 2 league 1 teams and the no mark hammers.

Van Aanholt is definitely not dross and Nolan wasn’t really. He’s had good players and awful players like all the rest. I don’t like him, but be fair.

 

[ilikecheese]

Simeone is competing regular with Barca and Real Madrid arguably the 2 biggest clubs in world football, challenging for titles, latter stages of the CL, now in the Semi final of the Europa league... while Allardyce is the most sacked manager this league has had.....WHY? Because basically hes crap at his job..

THERE IS NO COMPARISON

I don't think he's crap at his job. Personally I think he is exactly what the tin says. Boss for a club like Bolton and has just enough in his skillset to swerve relegation. Our current position flatters us in a very bad league. He is what he is.

Totally agree that there is no comparison.

 

[Harry73]

Yes bye bye Vlasic, Lookman DCL and welcome Wiltshire, Smalling Jones Shaw and Danny Wellbeck

Right now I’d be happy with all of those I think. Shaw could be world class in time, Jones/Smalling decent and Wellbeck...mmm. Surely there are worst players he could bring in.