Sam Allardyce

[bluestevon]

...we have to have aspiration, Ste, but we also need realism. You make a good point about us (fans) needing to be more positive, we shouldn’t settle for 2nd best. The realism, though, is that we currently have an ordinary team and after the Southampton game we were looking the least effective of the ordinary teams around us. Recent results have given us a lift but we are still an ordinary team.

What we all want will have to be built from this platform. The three draws you mention might be underwhelming but they are putting us in a place we can build from.

All fair points mate.

Use some context though, the results under Unsworth started decent, and the longer the uncertainty went on they progressively got worse - thats cause and effect mate, soon as it became apparent he was a dead duck performance levels dropped back to the Koeman levels in games - c ue the Saints result, which was a carbon copy of the way we collapsed under Koeman this season in several games, soon as we announced a permanent appointment we immediately went and hammered West Ham, and not having that anything Allardyce did or said had an effect on that game, it was purely the result of all the uncertainty going and players realising that they now had to worry about their futures as the new manager would be the one deciding if they had one - rather than a interim with no real power or say.

Will be honest mate, the three draws have not only been underwhelming, but the way they are being lauded by some is embarrassing, imagine if a team like West Ham or Saints played us at home and had zero shots and relied on a lot of luck not to get beat whilst being peppered and their fans crowed about getting that point and hailing the performance?

Are we an ordinary team - ofc we are, but west ham are worse, and they went and got a draw at home to Arsenal - and actually had some shots, they went to Chelsea and beat them, and deserved to - and again had some really good play in that game. Palace under WOY, in a worse position than us, still not parking the bus against a West Brom though or not even trying to attack in a home game or more embarrassingly a derby game - in all your years can you remember a derby we went out with absolutely no intention to at any point attack them?

In summary mate as gone on one here, what BFS had done has been ok, nothing more, he's won the games that any new manager should have been expected to have won for us, he has rode his luck in a fair few games, and he has made us 100% the ugliest team to watch in this league - but as for a platform, he isn't one to build that mate, he never has been, he is a short term 'fixer' of a manager, who never stays long enough to suffer the consequences of those short term fixes he does.

 

[Eggs]

All fair points mate.

Use some context though, the results under Unsworth started decent, and the longer the uncertainty went on they progressively got worse - thats cause and effect mate, soon as it became apparent he was a dead duck performance levels dropped back to the Koeman levels in games - c ue the Saints result, which was a carbon copy of the way we collapsed under Koeman this season in several games, soon as we announced a permanent appointment we immediately went and hammered West Ham, and not having that anything Allardyce did or said had an effect on that game, it was purely the result of all the uncertainty going and players realising that they now had to worry about their futures as the new manager would be the one deciding if they had one - rather than a interim with no real power or say.

Will be honest mate, the three draws have not only been underwhelming, but the way they are being lauded by some is embarrassing, imagine if a team like West Ham or Saints played us at home and had zero shots and relied on a lot of luck not to get beat whilst being peppered and their fans crowed about getting that point and hailing the performance?

Are we an ordinary team - ofc we are, but west ham are worse, and they went and got a draw at home to Arsenal - and actually had some shots, they went to Chelsea and beat them, and deserved to - and again had some really good play in that game. Palace under WOY, in a worse position than us, still not parking the bus against a West Brom though or not even trying to attack in a home game or more embarrassingly a derby game - in all your years can you remember a derby we went out with absolutely no intention to at any point attack them?

In summary mate as gone on one here, what BFS had done has been ok, nothing more, he's won the games that any new manager should have been expected to have won for us, he has rode his luck in a fair few games, and he has made us 100% the ugliest team to watch in this league - but as for a platform, he isn't one to build that mate, he never has been, he is a short term 'fixer' of a manager, who never stays long enough to suffer the consequences of those short term fixes he does.

...I fear it’s more about this team not being capable of attacking than it is about tactics. Mostly, we can’t retain possession. To be fair to Allardyce he says this in his post match interviews. We are just very poor when we have the football. I don’t know how we managed to get the points we have to be honest.

 

[kiss the crest]

All fair points mate.

Use some context though, the results under Unsworth started decent, and the longer the uncertainty went on they progressively got worse - thats cause and effect mate, soon as it became apparent he was a dead duck performance levels dropped back to the Koeman levels in games - c ue the Saints result, which was a carbon copy of the way we collapsed under Koeman this season in several games, soon as we announced a permanent appointment we immediately went and hammered West Ham, and not having that anything Allardyce did or said had an effect on that game, it was purely the result of all the uncertainty going and players realising that they now had to worry about their futures as the new manager would be the one deciding if they had one - rather than a interim with no real power or say.

Will be honest mate, the three draws have not only been underwhelming, but the way they are being lauded by some is embarrassing, imagine if a team like West Ham or Saints played us at home and had zero shots and relied on a lot of luck not to get beat whilst being peppered and their fans crowed about getting that point and hailing the performance?

Are we an ordinary team - ofc we are, but west ham are worse, and they went and got a draw at home to Arsenal - and actually had some shots, they went to Chelsea and beat them, and deserved to - and again had some really good play in that game. Palace under WOY, in a worse position than us, still not parking the bus against a West Brom though or not even trying to attack in a home game or more embarrassingly a derby game - in all your years can you remember a derby we went out with absolutely no intention to at any point attack them?

In summary mate as gone on one here, what BFS had done has been ok, nothing more, he's won the games that any new manager should have been expected to have won for us, he has rode his luck in a fair few games, and he has made us 100% the ugliest team to watch in this league - but as for a platform, he isn't one to build that mate, he never has been, he is a short term 'fixer' of a manager, who never stays long enough to suffer the consequences of those short term fixes he does.

One of the best posts I have read, well done mate.

Thank Christ someone can see what I can see

 

[bluestevon]

...I fear it’s more about this team not being capable of attacking than it is about tactics. Mostly, we can’t retain possession. To be fair to Allardyce he says this in his post match interviews. We are just very poor when we have the football. I don’t know how we managed to get the points we have to be honest.

Because mate we have massively mismanaged building a team and just identified individual players without consideration to how we would plan to play.

Bring in the best dead ball player in the league, don't identify the fact he needs targets to be at his best.

Have a slow defence - meaning we have to play deep, don't bring in the pace necessary to play deep and maintain a threat the other end.

Have a slow attack with the the ability to create and some good long range finishers in it, yet as the reveres of the above point, don't realise that top play high up and utilise those players, you need to play a high line - which means defenders with pace who can defend in space, meaning we have to choose between dropping deep and nullifying the attacking players, or push up to utilise those and leave the defence badly exposed.

Buy Sigurdsson with the intent to play him cutting in from the left which suits him, don't realise Baines is finished and we have no decent cover for that position, meaning against most teams Sigurdsson has to drop deep to cover and play almost as a fullback.

Assumed that changing 8-9 starters would not create problems and tried to fit them all in the same team, leading to all the above problems being magnified.

Not able to retain possession comes from all the above, we are playing players more for their ability to provide defensive cover (Lennon, Schneiderlin, Davies and Gueye all being in the same team often) we are casting aside those that struggle to do so - Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro - so it compounds the problems of everything i said.

Lukaku going and no replacement arriving is the oft quoted reason for our problems, and yes it has had an impact as the threat of him made opponents naturally play deeper even when we sat deep ourselves, without that they look at this team sitting deep and just push onto us with no worry about our pace - as we have none.

I still believe that rather than buying players who couldn't even play for us like Onyekuru, or wasting wages on donkeys like Martina, or the head banging against a wall idea to buy Klassen, we should have bought a solid centre back with pace who doesn't have a heart attack in possession under pressure, and a genuine quality and younger left back, that instantly pushed us 20-30y further up-field as a team without worrying about being exposed in behind, all the attacking players then don't get their one weakness they have - lack of pace exposed and can actually play their natural game.

We've either been blind about what we needed, tried to do it on the cheap, or had so many issues about who was doing what in terms or bringing players in, that we have created this perfect storm of a mess

 

[bluestevon]

...I fear it’s more about this team not being capable of attacking than it is about tactics. Mostly, we can’t retain possession. To be fair to Allardyce he says this in his post match interviews. We are just very poor when we have the football. I don’t know how we managed to get the points we have to be honest.

For example mate

For large parts this season we have played a back 4 of Martina, Keane, Williams, Baines, later on it's more like, Kenny, Holgate, Williams and Martina. with Gueye and Schneiderlin shielding them

Imagine the difference say having a back 4 of Kenny, Holgate/Keane, De Vrij/Manolas and Tierney/Shaw with Gueye alone shielding them would have on the shape, pace and how deep we set up as a team

Then imagine a attacking 5 of DCL/Niasse with Sigurdsson and Lookman/Vlasic either side, Rooney and Davies/Vlassic ahead of Gueye in a midfield 3, and all playing 20-30y naturally further forwards.

Still not perfect but a hell of an improvement and would have cost what to do that - maybe an extra 20-25 max for the fb and say 15-35 for the cb?

 

[trueblue10]

Should he set us out to win or to not get beaten? And believe me there is a difference.

It’s important to remember that most managers (not the ones not in the top 6 who target victory 90% of the time unless they’re playing each other) look at groups of games and upcoming fixtures as opposed to just taking it one game at a time. As such it’s perfectly acceptable for Sam to play for a point at Anfield and against Chelsea- provided of course he’s targeting appropriate results and performances in other fixtures. Yesterday was neither. It was negative, mid to lower table football. We’re in a pretty comfortable position now (Sam deserves some credit for this) and yesterday we should have been playing for a victory. It honestly makes me sad that people think yesterday was a “good away point”. And the question I have to ask is, why did he fear West Brom so much that he set us up the way he did?

I’m sure we can all stomach to an extent parking the bus a bit in certain matches- yesterday was not one of those matches.

Whilst i agree with a lot of what you say, prior to Sams appointment, our form both home and away was woeful.

Don't forget he has managed to make our team alot harder to beat since he came here less than a month ago.

The first thing he had to concentrate on is to make us hard to beat, and in 29 days, he has succeeded. Which , quite frankly is amazing, if you consider what was happening defensively before he arrived.

Everyone who wants us playing like Barcelona or Man City after 29 days and with the same squad that Koeman and Unsy had , is quite frankly, delusional.

 

[trueblue10]

Sad days when we have a manager who played to get a draw (and fans seem happy with it) at a team who are second bottom in the prem, and who hadn't won a game in their last 17 before they played us yesterday.

Agree completely, but 34 days ago we got snotted 4-1 away at Southampton and sat 3rd bottom in the premier league.

Im sure after that result, a point away at West Brom would have felt like a victory.

Perspective an all that.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Honestly if we finish 7th and go on a good cup run (hopefully we win it), then i think Sam Allardyce will have done more than enough, to earn another season in charge.Of course we would also need to signs, that the football is improving as well.

 

[Eggs]

For example mate

For large parts this season we have played a back 4 of Martina, Keane, Williams, Baines, later on it's more like, Kenny, Holgate, Williams and Martina. with Gueye and Schneiderlin shielding them

Imagine the difference say having a back 4 of Kenny, Holgate/Keane, De Vrij/Manolas and Tierney/Shaw with Gueye alone shielding them would have on the shape, pace and how deep we set up as a team

Then imagine a attacking 5 of DCL/Niasse with Sigurdsson and Lookman/Vlasic either side, Rooney and Davies/Vlassic ahead of Gueye in a midfield 3, and all playing 20-30y naturally further forwards.

Still not perfect but a hell of an improvement and would have cost what to do that - maybe an extra 20-25 max for the fb and say 15-35 for the cb?

...I agree about the difference a couple of new players could make. I also agree we could’ve used Vlasic more because he has the potential to get us up the pitch. I can only think there’s something about Vlasic that the coaches aren’t keen on. I recognise he doesn’t support his FB when played out wide but I thought he’d be good in the Barkley role. I think this is why Bolasie is being rushed back in.

This window could be interesting but I suspect Allardyce is just as keen to get some of the injured players back.

 

[Lord Buckethead]

been here less than a month, still unbeaten, 10 places further up the league.

Keep on snorting that Bisto Sam, you lovely large point grabbing machine you.

 

[graeme2911]

State of some of you, desperate to discredit Allardyce for anything positive we've done under him so far.
He's not perfect, but he is a very good, very pragmatic manager.


Played absolute garbage football without a game plan or style under Koeman for 18 months and barely a peep. ONE month into Allardyce's much needed defensive stability and people going ape.


Couldn't be that one was a swashbuckling attacking centre half for Barcelona with a European accent, and the other is a large, no nonsense ex-Bolton, Brummie, could it? Talk about personality football. Same people probably the ones moaning about "modern football".

 

[matty1878]

State of some of you, desperate to discredit Allardyce for anything positive we've done under him so far.
He's not perfect, but he is a very good, very pragmatic manager.


Played absolute garbage football without a game plan or style under Koeman for 18 months and barely a peep. ONE month into Allardyce's much needed defensive stability and people going ape.


Couldn't be that one was a swashbuckling attacking centre half for Barcelona with a European accent, and the other is a large, no nonsense ex-Bolton, Brummie, could it? Talk about personality football. Same people probably the ones moaning about "modern football".

6 at the back against West Brom away trying to nick a point tells you all you to need to know about Sam. Wait till next week when Liverpool steam roll us people when then say it’s the players. And Koeman was good until this summer it all went wrong.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Because mate we have massively mismanaged building a team and just identified individual players without consideration to how we would plan to play.

Bring in the best dead ball player in the league, don't identify the fact he needs targets to be at his best.

Have a slow defence - meaning we have to play deep, don't bring in the pace necessary to play deep and maintain a threat the other end.

Have a slow attack with the the ability to create and some good long range finishers in it, yet as the reveres of the above point, don't realise that top play high up and utilise those players, you need to play a high line - which means defenders with pace who can defend in space, meaning we have to choose between dropping deep and nullifying the attacking players, or push up to utilise those and leave the defence badly exposed.

Buy Sigurdsson with the intent to play him cutting in from the left which suits him, don't realise Baines is finished and we have no decent cover for that position, meaning against most teams Sigurdsson has to drop deep to cover and play almost as a fullback.

Assumed that changing 8-9 starters would not create problems and tried to fit them all in the same team, leading to all the above problems being magnified.

Not able to retain possession comes from all the above, we are playing players more for their ability to provide defensive cover (Lennon, Schneiderlin, Davies and Gueye all being in the same team often) we are casting aside those that struggle to do so - Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro - so it compounds the problems of everything i said.

Lukaku going and no replacement arriving is the oft quoted reason for our problems, and yes it has had an impact as the threat of him made opponents naturally play deeper even when we sat deep ourselves, without that they look at this team sitting deep and just push onto us with no worry about our pace - as we have none.

I still believe that rather than buying players who couldn't even play for us like Onyekuru, or wasting wages on donkeys like Martina, or the head banging against a wall idea to buy Klassen, we should have bought a solid centre back with pace who doesn't have a heart attack in possession under pressure, and a genuine quality and younger left back, that instantly pushed us 20-30y further up-field as a team without worrying about being exposed in behind, all the attacking players then don't get their one weakness they have - lack of pace exposed and can actually play their natural game.

We've either been blind about what we needed, tried to do it on the cheap, or had so many issues about who was doing what in terms or bringing players in, that we have created this perfect storm of a mess

In that post you have answered the questions why we have struggled so much and why the results seem embarrassing.

He doesn't want us to get pick pocketed deep in our own half so we get the ball quick to the forwards but it rarely sticks. As you have written we need defenders that are comfortable and capable of holding a higher line enabling the play to take place out of the danger zone. Or if we continue to play direct early, a forward who can hold the ball up and link play well. Until that happens we have to be happy enough that we are accumulating points. It's one thing playing defensively against the top teams or when we are the away team but I don't think anyone will stand for this at Goodison against middling to lower end sides.

I can't see why people who don't like Sam are that worried about these draws, if he continues to set out the team that delivers results like the WBA one he won't see out his contract so surely that should make them happy? So it's win/win, we either start playing decent under him going forward or we get in a new man who is naturally more expansive but have a solid baseline to start from.

I guess Sam knows this is the case so if he wants to keep the job he will have to show we can do more than defend in numbers. This is reliant on us getting the right players in this window though.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Because mate we have massively mismanaged building a team and just identified individual players without consideration to how we would plan to play.

Bring in the best dead ball player in the league, don't identify the fact he needs targets to be at his best.

Have a slow defence - meaning we have to play deep, don't bring in the pace necessary to play deep and maintain a threat the other end.

Have a slow attack with the the ability to create and some good long range finishers in it, yet as the reveres of the above point, don't realise that top play high up and utilise those players, you need to play a high line - which means defenders with pace who can defend in space, meaning we have to choose between dropping deep and nullifying the attacking players, or push up to utilise those and leave the defence badly exposed.

Buy Sigurdsson with the intent to play him cutting in from the left which suits him, don't realise Baines is finished and we have no decent cover for that position, meaning against most teams Sigurdsson has to drop deep to cover and play almost as a fullback.

Assumed that changing 8-9 starters would not create problems and tried to fit them all in the same team, leading to all the above problems being magnified.

Not able to retain possession comes from all the above, we are playing players more for their ability to provide defensive cover (Lennon, Schneiderlin, Davies and Gueye all being in the same team often) we are casting aside those that struggle to do so - Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro - so it compounds the problems of everything i said.

Lukaku going and no replacement arriving is the oft quoted reason for our problems, and yes it has had an impact as the threat of him made opponents naturally play deeper even when we sat deep ourselves, without that they look at this team sitting deep and just push onto us with no worry about our pace - as we have none.

I still believe that rather than buying players who couldn't even play for us like Onyekuru, or wasting wages on donkeys like Martina, or the head banging against a wall idea to buy Klassen, we should have bought a solid centre back with pace who doesn't have a heart attack in possession under pressure, and a genuine quality and younger left back, that instantly pushed us 20-30y further up-field as a team without worrying about being exposed in behind, all the attacking players then don't get their one weakness they have - lack of pace exposed and can actually play their natural game.

We've either been blind about what we needed, tried to do it on the cheap, or had so many issues about who was doing what in terms or bringing players in, that we have created this perfect storm of a mess

Basically you're blaming the Koeman/Walsh axis for messing up the opportunities in the summer, and you're right.
Sam has done well to get the defence actually defending as a unit,they were like half a dozen rabbits in separate headlights under Koeman.
Sam would always have been able to do this, he's actually a good common sense manager from the old school, and no one is better at pragmatism and playing percentages. Just what we need...a period of 'back to basics' stability. I think that just by playing up to standard we have a shot at Europe for next season and I think that a season in Europe with Everton will be Sams last hurrah, and this is what he is aiming for.
If we get to March in the position we are in now, or slightly better, we will more attack minded if it means a Europa place is possible.

 

[trueblue10]

I'm struggling to understand why people think it will develop much beyond what he's serving up now.

What gives people hope from his career that we will? What gives people the idea we've even got that much money to spend on new players? The fact is that we have completely ballsed everything up and being best of the rest is all we can hope for in the foreseeable future.

Look at the squads in the top 6. Littered with quality players. We have spunked the majority of our money and are actually a worse team for it.

None of this is Sams fault, all highlighted happened before he got here.

He inherited a complete shambles of a team with ZERO confidence.

The fact that we are still unbeaten under his guidance is testament to his man management skills.

We have gone from being completely shambolic at the back to looking quite solid.

29 days he has been here, 29, and people want us to go out and play the likes of West Brom, Swansea and Bournemouth of the park, with the same personel who capitulated away to Southampton and at home to Atalanta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Sams good, but not that good.