Sam Allardyce

[MikeH72]

 

[Timak]

Not exactly glowing recommendations, there.

I know they aren't exactly Joey O'Brien on Grant Hanley are they.

 

[Connor]

I know they aren't exactly Joey O'Brien on Grant Hanley are they.

I always quite liked Grant Hanley.

 

[Timak]

You're going back to the 90's for Redknapp there mate.

Ah alright then, Sam has given Holgate, Davies, Kenny and DCL key roles since he's come in at Everton. There you go. No worse.

Just admit that what you said about Allardyce never trusting young players in his entire career was hysterical rubbish that you'd heard somewhere else and took on board.

Nope because you've come up with a list of players including the likes of James Tomkins (75 PL games before Allardyce joined) dredged up from his career.

He doesn't trust young players.

He openly speaks about the fact, most recently yesterday.

 

[MikeH72]

Nope because you've come up with a list of players including the likes of James Tomkins (75 PL games before Allardyce joined) dredged up from his career.

He doesn't trust young players.

He openly speaks about the fact, most recently yesterday.

Why has he brought loads through and played them regularly then mate? Hang on I think I know this one - it's because he never had anyone else and was forced into it?

 

[davids]

lol he will never change his ways because he can’t. Shake hands in the summer with him and move on

Until we have 40 points on the board I don't want him to.After that I don't much care.The problem we'll always have is that managers know they are always a few bad games from the sack,so being expansive and experimental for most is too risky.

 

[davids]

So giving Vlasic and Lookman more game time to develop them, which is what we've been talking about here, is going to cost us 3 points every time we play them?.

Kenny, Davies and DCL need a bit of a break. Davies especially has probably played too much first team football over the last 12 months. DCL too out of necessity and Kenny over the last 12 games or so. But Lookman, Vlasic and Baningime are completely under used IMO. It's about balance with young kids. Don't think anybody's saying play them all at the same time. But you can rest Davies for Bene. You can introduce Lookman or Vlasic from the bench rather than Lennon. You don't have to start with both Rooney and Siggy every match. You can start one of Lookman or Vlasic against the likes of Albion at home.

I'm not sure if you realise just how potentially good some of these players are. Lookman could be world class if developed correctly. He was the most skilful player on show at the U20 WC last summer. Bar none. Vlasic has been in Croatia's full squad during the last couple of International breaks and will be hoping to force himself into their world cup squad (which country do you think will go further this summer, Croatia or England?).

There is a case to be made that Vlasic going to sleep cost us the Burnley game,and if he's repeating it in training it might be the reason he isn't starting.If and when we are safe that could change.

 

[billyblue80]

On Talk [Poor language removed] this morning talking about tightening up, against West Brom ffs

 

[kenada_blue]

So giving Vlasic and Lookman more game time to develop them, which is what we've been talking about here, is going to cost us 3 points every time we play them?.

Kenny, Davies and DCL need a bit of a break. Davies especially has probably played too much first team football over the last 12 months. DCL too out of necessity and Kenny over the last 12 games or so. But Lookman, Vlasic and Baningime are completely under used IMO. It's about balance with young kids. Don't think anybody's saying play them all at the same time. But you can rest Davies for Bene. You can introduce Lookman or Vlasic from the bench rather than Lennon. You don't have to start with both Rooney and Siggy every match. You can start one of Lookman or Vlasic against the likes of Albion at home.

I'm not sure if you realise just how potentially good some of these players are. Lookman could be world class if developed correctly. He was the most skilful player on show at the U20 WC last summer. Bar none. Vlasic has been in Croatia's full squad during the last couple of International breaks and will be hoping to force himself into their world cup squad (which country do you think will go further this summer, Croatia or England?).

No. Never said that. They'll get game time, of course they will

But theyre not going to be thrown in and starting right this minute because we're still flakey and mega mega gash.

Once we have solid foundations and more confidence playing a working system we'll see them play.

 

[kenada_blue]

No offense, mate, but I think that line of thinking is naive. We have been woeful for the entire season. Our "seasoned pros" are maaasssively underperforming and making mistakes left right and center that cost us points. They are in, week in and week out.


But kids who show promise and class who need game time to progress to the next level are the ones are "most likely to cost us 3 points"? You're daming players who have barely played for us in favor of "professionals" who have shown that they are the ones "most likely to cost us 3 points".

Which is fine.

But name me another team in the league that are throwing their youngsters out week in week out regardless of results?

Not forgetting we're still playing 3 or 4 under 23s most weeks.

Throw them in. I don't mind it. But I understand why most managers don't in our situation.

 

[Zatara]

Which is fine.

But name me another team in the league that are throwing their youngsters out week in week out regardless of results?

Not forgetting we're still playing 3 or 4 under 23s most weeks.

Throw them in. I don't mind it. But I understand why most managers don't in our situation.

Surely they play if they are performing better than the current starters?

 

[orly]

Nope because you've come up with a list of players including the likes of James Tomkins (75 PL games before Allardyce joined) dredged up from his career.

He doesn't trust young players.

He openly speaks about the fact, most recently yesterday.

He's given Tom Davies a key role?????

He played 25 times last year for us under Koeman , but he was a sub against United and dropped all together against Spurs and Bournemouth

Calvert-Lewin got 11 games under Koeman, Allardyce has gone out and bought a striker and a striker / winger as his first two signings and dropped him to the bench for the last two league games

 

[Barnfred 55]

No. Never said that. They'll get game time, of course they will

But theyre not going to be thrown in and starting right this minute because we're still flakey and mega mega gash.

Once we have solid foundations and more confidence playing a working system we'll see them play.

I was originally questioning your comment that every little mistake they make could cost us 3 points, which I felt was a bit extreme.

IMO neither Vlasic or Lookman are getting enough game time at the moment (I would add Baningime to that too), but I take the point that neither are quite ready to be regular starters. But they both need more game time to develop and this is a critical stage in their learning process.

Personally I feel there is a happy medium and that would be to give them more game time from the bench, and to rotate them from the start in some of our easier games, like the one coming up against Albion. Let's be honest, take out the top 6 out of the equation and the premier league is much of a muchness. After we play Arsenal at the beginning of Feb, we only have two more games against the big boys so I can't see the issue in them getting more playing time.

 

[Barnfred 55]

There is a case to be made that Vlasic going to sleep cost us the Burnley game,and if he's repeating it in training it might be the reason he isn't starting.If and when we are safe that could change.

Think that's a case of clutching at straws to prove a point mate. I was at that game and that was the end of what must have been a 30 pass move, when we just sat off them completely. Vlasic was ball watching for the final pass in behind but I've seen that and worse from all of our other players this season. Also we were guilty of missing 2 or 3 sitters before that goal went in, 2 of which I believe Vlasic had a key role in he build up.

Can't see how it would be an ongoing problem in training though, as he would be up against our own players, none of who are capable of that amount of movement.

 

[kenada_blue]

I was originally questioning your comment that every little mistake they make could cost us 3 points, which I felt was a bit extreme.

IMO neither Vlasic or Lookman are getting enough game time at the moment (I would add Baningime to that too), but I take the point that neither are quite ready to be regular starters. But they both need more game time to develop and this is a critical stage in their learning process.

Personally I feel there is a happy medium and that would be to give them more game time from the bench, and to rotate them from the start in some of our easier games, like the one coming up against Albion. Let's be honest, take out the top 6 out of the equation and the premier league is much of a muchness. After we play Arsenal at the beginning of Feb, we only have two more games against the big boys so I can't see the issue in them getting more playing time.

That was the point. It's an extreme idea but one that could happen. It's nothing to do with their ability, i just think it's the wrong time to be starting to develop these players right this second.

Take DCL. The lads been thrown in the deep end but he's progressed and you can see him getting better. However, what if it got to the point where we turn on him and blame him for not scoring? The same thing with Lookman. He doesn't perform due to the pressure, what then?

It's just not the right environment at the moment imo