Scottish football

[Disgruntledgoat]

lol

Didn't you see the Wolves - Man City game?

You've flopped miserably in this debate. You've taken a bigger pounding than the old Rangers did in the 1957 Scottish League Cup final. If you don't know the result of that game, it was an eight goal thriller.

As for softening the pain. once again a supporter of The Rangers is celebrating before they've actually won anything. They did this after The Rangers came third in a two horse race in the Scottish Championship, and got to the play off final. They were going to sweep Motherwell aside, except that no one told Motherwell the script, and the plucky, cash strapped, newco lost 1 - 6 on aggregate.

You have thought supporters of The Rangers may have learned a lesson, but no. After their penalty shoot out win over Celtic in the Scottish Cup semi final in 2016. The cup was secured, until Anthony Stokes stepped up and helped Hibs to their first Scottish Cup win in over a hundred years.

Now by this time you would definitely think supporters of The Rangers would have learned their lesson, and kept their powder dry, but, once again, no. After finally wining the second tier title, they were now going to put Celtic in it's place, because they had a manager who was the possessor of a magic hat (lol) I still have to laugh at that one, and also Joey Barton was enlisted.

Joey proudly boasted about how no one in Scotland could get near him, and he was in a different league to Scott Brown. It would appear that league must have been somewhere around National League North level, as he put in a few nondescript performances, before he left after he disagreed strongly that the manager of The Rangers was the owner of a magic hat, and left Mr Warburton in no doubt as to his own valuation of his managerial credentials.

Then there was last season. Steven Gerrard definitely improved The Rangers, and put up a much better fight than Mr Warburton, or Mr Caixinha. He put up such a good fight that The Rangers actually won a game in normal time against Celtic for the first time in the clubs history, around a year ago. Once again supporters of The Rangers celebrated, and boasted how they were going to win the title, and how everyone should get on board The 55 Express blah blah. blah. Once again, it all turned to Rafael, and Celtic went on to win their 8th, that's EIGHTH, league title in a row, and also completed an unprecedented treble treble.

We'll see what happens this season. Gerrard has improved The Rangers to the extent that Celtic are ten points better off than they were at this time last season, but if The Rangers win their game in hand they will go top of the league. The Rangers were definite challengers last season, but this season they are deadly serious challengers.

I've seen the state The Rangers fans have gotten into after winning two league games against Celtic a year apart, both in December. I shudder to think what they'll be like when the club actually wins a top level trophy for the first time in it's history. Obviously I'm not including The Petrofac Cup, or whatever it was called. Unlike your good self, I'll wait until the trophies are handed out and I see who wins them before I decide on whether to celebrate, or not.

Savage

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Rangers were founded, by four young men who enjoyed playing football.Love of football was the main motivating reason, behind the founding of the famous Glasgow Rangers.Religion had sweet f all to do about it.

Somebody should inform their support of this.

Actually, it doesn't matter because Glasgow Rangers died.

 

[The Celtic View]

Is that not signing a catholic until Johnson totally true mate ? I’m not being pedantic , well not overly so , and there is absolutely no doubt there was a policy but there were certainly catholic’s that played for rangers before him mostly I accept before WWI . I do also know I read an article by John spencer , one of my least favourite ever Everton players by the way , about the sectarianism he experienced as a Catholic rangers player ! And he made his debut whilst Mo was still at Celtic .

So in no way am I defending what seems to have been a definite policy that almost certainly sowed the seeds of a lot of what we still see today just trying to be accurate I suppose and I fully endorse your last sentence .

Rangers had an anti-Catholic employment policy for a long time, maybe around 50 years. The club didn't start of with this policy, it picked it up along the way. A couple of players slipped through the net Don Kitchenbrand being the most famous. There was a bizarre signing of an Irish player (I can't remember his name, maybe O'Neil?) in the early 70's. I don't think he played a single game. I have no idea why he was signed. It was a strange one.

As you said, Rangers already had John Spencer coming through the ranks before the signing of Mo Johnston officially broke the policy. I've online read that Rangers had Catholic youngsters on trial at the club in the late 80's. If I were to guess, I would say Graeme Souness and David Murray wanted to do away with the policy, but did it quietly so as not to put pressure on the young players, and the signing of Mo Johnston was a public statement, which I have to admit was a real blow to the Celtic supporters at the time.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Rangers did have a couple of catholics before Johnson, and Celtic had a few protestants at that time too. Both sets of fans try to use that fact to claim the other side is more bigoted than them, however the reality is that both clubs were fundamentally bigoted, and predominantly both sets of fans still are unfortunately, and are more interested in trying to claim the other side is worse rather than admitting the problem and cleaning up their own house.
It's the main reason I support one of the new firm rather than either of the old firm

This. That Green Brigade mob can sniff it n'aw.

 

[The Celtic View]

Rangers did have a couple of catholics before Johnson, and Celtic had a few protestants at that time too. Both sets of fans try to use that fact to claim the other side is more bigoted than them, however the reality is that both clubs were fundamentally bigoted, and predominantly both sets of fans still are unfortunately, and are more interested in trying to claim the other side is worse rather than admitting the problem and cleaning up their own house.
It's the main reason I support one of the new firm rather than either of the old firm

Celtic have never, ever, had a sectarian employment policy. Up here the vast majority of young protestants in Glasgow want to sign for Rangers, and the vast majority of young Catholics want to sign for Celtic, but, as I said, Celtic have never had a sectarian signing policy. Ranger had done for somewhere between 50 and 70 years. I believe this policy was introduced by Bill Struth, who was a very successful manager of the club.

Your comparing apples with Orangemen.

 

[WA Toffee]

Celtic have never, ever, had a sectarian employment policy. Up here the vast majority of young protestants in Glasgow want to sign for Rangers, and the vast majority of young Catholics want to sign for Celtic, but, as I said, Celtic have never had a sectarian signing policy. Ranger had done for somewhere between 50 and 70 years. I believe this policy was introduced by Bill Struth, who was a very successful manager of the club.

Your comparing apples with Orangemen.

my mistake, despite living on the west coast of Scotland for 25 years, I must have missed that only Rangers that are bigoted

As I said, both clubs try to claim they aren't but the other side are. Pretty much what you have just done.

Now, perhaps you don't partake in the sectarian bigotry yourself, but to try and claim the wider celtic community also don't is quite frankly laughable.
One is every bit as bad as the other.

 

[The Celtic View]

Most supporters on both sides couldn't explain their own modern day religious "views" or more importantly what exactly is wrong with the other side's religious beliefs.


Historically it is a fact that the now sadly defunct club Rangers, founded in 1872, would not sign an RC until Souness signed Mo Johnson.

Celtic was founded in 1888 principally to raise funds for providing cheap dinners to the Catholic destitute- Br Walfrid etc. But although they did not apply a counter bar on signing non RCs, Jock Stein was their first non RC manager.

Really the "sectarianism" today is pure and simple tribal bigotry.

In my experience, Celtic fans tend not to talk about other peoples religion. I was brought up in an are of Glasgow that had a big Irish community. My friends were ones I met at school, and the only Protestants I met were the ones who came down to the local football pitch on a Sunday for a kick about. I didn't know them all that well, but they seemed like decent guys.

If Celtic were playing away from home, occasionally I would go to see Rangers, if they were playing a good team like Hibs, or Aberdeen. I started to experience bigotry when I started work. Lime I said earlier I have met loads of really decent, friendly, funny, guys who supported Rangers. Unfortunately I have also met some out and out bigots, and, in my experience, it's these people who cause the problem. The create division, and their spread poison. Obviously there are bigots on both sides, but, like I said, I don't ever remember hearing a Celtic fans talk about other peoples religion. I have heard a few Orangemen talking about Catholic's, The Pope, and the abuse of youngsters.

Your post makes it seem as if one lot are as bad as the other, when that is clearly not true. The problem with Scotland, particularly the West of Scotland has always been, in my opinion, anti-Catholic bigotry, and anti-Irish racism. This creates a division. You could say there's a racial divide in the Deep South of America, which would be true, but most of it tends to be heading in one direction, towards the black people.

 

[The Celtic View]

Most supporters on both sides couldn't explain their own modern day religious "views" or more importantly what exactly is wrong with the other side's religious beliefs.


Historically it is a fact that the now sadly defunct club Rangers, founded in 1872, would not sign an RC until Souness signed Mo Johnson.

Celtic was founded in 1888 principally to raise funds for providing cheap dinners to the Catholic destitute- Br Walfrid etc. But although they did not apply a counter bar on signing non RCs, Jock Stein was their first non RC manager.

Really the "sectarianism" today is pure and simple tribal bigotry.

While it's true Jock Stein was Celtic's first Protestant manager, he was only the fourth manager in the clubs history, so it may give a bit of a false impression.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Your post makes it seem as if one lot are as bad as the other, when that is clearly not true. The problem with Scotland, particularly the West of Scotland has always been, in my opinion, anti-Catholic bigotry, and anti-Irish racism. This creates a division. You could say there's a racial divide in the Deep South of America, which would be true, but most of it tends to be heading in one direction, towards the black people.

The problem in Scotland stems from it's chuffing weird segregation of the education system into "Catholic" and "Other". I have no idea why this is still a thing

 

[The Celtic View]

my mistake, despite living on the west coast of Scotland for 25 years, I must have missed that only Rangers that are bigoted

As I said, both clubs try to claim they aren't but the other side are. Pretty much what you have just done.

Now, perhaps you don't partake in the sectarian bigotry yourself, but to try and claim the wider celtic community also don't is quite frankly laughable.
One is every bit as bad as the other.

I must have missed the part where I posted that.

I merely pointed out that only one of the clubs had a sectarian employment policy, which lasted for decades. Not once have I claimed there are no bigots who support Celtic. That would be ludicrous, and a bit like saying there were no racists who supported any club. There is however a big difference between both sets of supporters, in my opinion.

 

[The Celtic View]

The problem in Scotland stems from it's chuffing weird segregation of the education system into "Catholic" and "Other". I have no idea why this is still a thing

They have Catholic schools all over the world, but it only seems to be a problem in Scotland, and Northern Ireland. Two countries in which the OO are most prominent.

Bigotry comes from the home. I can assure you it's most definitely not taught in Catholic schools, and I highly doubt it's taught in non denominational schools either. Throughout the world places in Catholic schools are sought after by parents who want to get their kids into a Catholic education. Like for like Catholic schools also seem to get excellent results academically.

Do you seriously think the problem of out and out bigots who bring up their kids to be bigots would be solved if you forced kids together? I reckon it would lead to even more division, and bullying at schools. Black and white kids have been going to the same schools for several decades now, and it doesn't seem to have cured racism.

 

[WA Toffee]

I must have missed the part where I posted that.

I merely pointed out that only one of the clubs had a sectarian employment policy, which lasted for decades. Not once have I claimed there are no bigots who support Celtic. That would be ludicrous, and a bit like saying there were no racists who supported any club. There is however a big difference between both sets of supporters, in my opinion.

sorry, my mistake again. I just assumed that when you posted about rangers having a sectarian policy and celtic not having one, that it could be interpreted as meaning rangers had a sectarian policy and celtic didn't.

On another point, why are Celtic fans still so obsessed with a club which ceased existing a dozen or so years ago?

 

[The Celtic View]

This. That Green Brigade mob can sniff it n'aw.

They create an excellent atmosphere at Celtic Park, and they do a lot of stuff for charity that doesn't get reported, but in my opinion, which admittedly is the opinion of an old man, they take themselves far too seriously.

When I look at them jumping around and singing I imagine they must be having a great time, but Instead of just going along to the ground and having fun, they want to sing songs, or use pyrotechnics, that they know will get the club a fine.

I think they see themselves as political, but when you say you won't be told by the club which songs you can sing then you're starting to lose the plot a bit, and, as I said, are taking yourselves far too seriously.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

The problem in Scotland stems from it's chuffing weird segregation of the education system into "Catholic" and "Other". I have no idea why this is still a thing

We (Merseyside) had segregated schools.

 

[larbert toffee]

My neck is getting sore, this is like watching a game of tennis.