Scottish football

[artetas_biggest_fan]

Eh? It might not have been written down on paper but refusing to employ a Catholic was absolutely, 100%, club policy.

You said plenty of Catholics had signed for Rangers before they introduced the No Catholics policy. What happened to change the situation in which plenty of Catholics wanted to play for Rangers to no Catholics wanting to play for the club?

Don Kitchenbrand managed to slip through the net by keeping it a secret that he was a Catholic. Some Rangers players, Alex Ferguson being one of them, have felt they were forced out of the club for committing the heinous crime of even marrying a Catholic!

I accept the No Catholics policy changed a long time ago, but to deny Rangers refused to employ a Catholic for well over 50 years is absolutely ludicrous.

Celtic weren't whiter that white either (and I say this as an Irish Celtic supporter). Jock Stein was more or less told he had no chance to become manager when he joined the club’s backroom staff granted that he was allowed to join the club at all is one step up from Rangers).

Both were bigoted, just one slightly less so.

I've already explained my views and reasons why Rangers so called signing policy happened. To be honest with you, i won't change that opinion for anyone. In fact what i would say to you and anyone else for that matter, is that i stand over everything i said 100%. That's just my own personal views on the subject. Catholics by and large at the time did not wish to sign for Rangers, and the club did not go out of it's way to convince them otherwise, which was wrong i admit. Both Rangers and Celtic have had issues with sectarianism and religious bigotry.

They both had (still have) issues, which is why neither are paragons of tolerance. What is clear though is you are underplaying Rangers unwritten policy towards catholics. They were bigoted to the core. The signing was a major story at the time, even parodied in Rab C Nesbitt.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

I think your pro lfc agenda is clear for everyone to see. The most recent and most high profile racial incident, involving a merseyside club, was the Suarez/Evra incident. An rs player was charged with racism, and the club defended Suarez to the hilt. Dalglish remember only issued an apology, after being ordered to by the board. Everton is the peoples club. It is a club where people of all religions colour and race, are valued and respected.

It is the senior club of the city, with a deeper and richer history than the rs. Yeah yeah 19 league titles, 6 european cups, their big army of mutant freak fans around the world whatever. But i think the moral of the Everton and Liverpool rivalry, is quality over quantity. Did the rs ever have a midfield trio as good as the holy trinity for example? Did an rs ever score 60 league goals in a season. As i said quality over quantity. Those who understand need no explaining, those who don't do not matter.

It’s not “pro” anything (see my post above about Celtic, speaking as an Irish catholic).

I’ve zero tolerance for nonsense or rewriting history. I grew up during the troubles in NI, so when I hear “X did this”...i immediately roll my eyes as it’s the same tribal, biased BS.

By the way did you read the link about Everton and racism? I didn’t write it, nor had I anything to do with the survey, “Everton are white” chant etc. Here, read these (and save you bias for some other mug).

Everton fans top racist 'league of shame'

Racial abuse aimed at black or foreign players at football grounds is still rife, according to university researchers who carried out a survey of 33,000 fans.

www.theguardian.com

Everton move to lose 'racist' tag

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Cork Evertonian]

It’s not “pro” anything (see my post above about Celtic, speaking as an Irish catholic).

I’ve zero tolerance for nonsense or rewriting history. I grew up during the troubles in NI, so when I hear “X did this”...i immediately roll my eyes as it’s the same tribal, biased BS.

By the way did you read the link about Everton and racism? I didn’t write it, nor had I anything to do with the survey, “Everton are white” chant etc. Here, read these (and save you bias for some other mug).

Everton fans top racist 'league of shame'

Racial abuse aimed at black or foreign players at football grounds is still rife, according to university researchers who carried out a survey of 33,000 fans.

www.theguardian.com

Everton move to lose 'racist' tag

www.telegraph.co.uk

I said my bit, and this thread is being derailed. Not all Evertons fans are angels i admit, but the crowd across the park are way worse. Anyway the league title is nearly in the bag, but can this team go through the season unbeaten? A big ask i know, but i think they can pull it off tbh.

 

[catcherintherye]

It’s nonsense to suggest any catholic-Protestant affiliation to Merseyside clubs. There is zero evidence of it.

The only taboo with a Merseyside club was black players signing for Everton, so much so then manager and owner had to come out and address it:

Everton and Racism

Nowadays, you wouldn’t consider Everton a racist club. You wouldn’t give it a single thought. However, once upon a time, they had a bad reputation. Fans made racist chants more often th…

www.efcstatto.com

The end of summer 1994, Everton signed Nigerian striker Daniel Amokachi from Club Brugge for £3 million, becoming Everton’s first black player in 19 years. The acquisition of Amokachi hoped to help Everton eradicate their reputation as a racist club, however Peter Johnson and Mike Walker assured that Everton signed him because of his ability, not the colour of his skin.


Peter Johnson



Black players were still being racially abused by a minority of Everton fans. Chelsea’s Ruud Gullit was the victim of some horrendous slurs, as told by David Goldblatt:


Les Ferdinand faced the racist wrath of Everton fans once again in 1996:


Following Les Ferdinand’s comments in his autobiography, Everton secretary Michael Dunford proclaimed that the club is trying its best to clamp down on racism.


However, their attempts didn’t seem to be successful as at the turn of the millennium, Everton were named Britain’s most racist club. In a survey of 33,000 fans ran by the University of Leicester, 38% said they heard racist comments from Everton fans. By comparison, the next four were Rangers (36%), Celtic (35%), West Ham (32%) and Newcastle (31%).

There is no religious issue amongst Everton and Liverpool fans.

However there was at the top of their club. They ran a colour bar against Irish Catholics.

That Survey you run, is based upon about 1000 respondents, so has no validity and is not a big enough sample size. It's also from the last century. However racism has always been a problem for both clubs.

If there was a taboo on black players, it would have again been more apparent at Liverpool, than Everton, who again only picked black players after decades after Everton did.

Theres a nuanced debate to be had. Your above post doesnt do that I'm afraid.

Liverpool FC were and remain a racist, bigoted, sectarian club. That has continued right up to the modern day, with their treatment of Evra, Rashford & Holgate.

 

[blueloon]

Anyway , back in the world of Scottish football, it seems that Jonjoe Kenny is on his way to Celtic and former Blue Fraser Hornby is on his way from Reims to the Dons on loan. It’ll be interesting to see how Hornby develops, he was nowhere near first team material for us but has the physicality to hold his own on the SPL if he can get a run of games for Aberdeen.

 

[catcherintherye]

I've already explained my views and reasons why Rangers so called signing policy happened. To be honest with you, i won't change that opinion for anyone. In fact what i would say to you and anyone else for that matter, is that i stand over everything i said 100%. That's just my own personal views on the subject. Catholics by and large at the time did not wish to sign for Rangers, and the club did not go out of it's way to convince them otherwise, which was wrong i admit. Both Rangers and Celtic have had issues with sectarianism and religious bigotry.

I'm not really interested in the view of any Liverpool fan, or any fan who supports that lowlife thug in charge of Rangers.

Both clubs behaved in a bigoted manner running a colour bar. No cringey or pathetic excuses ever justify the harms of what they did. They should never be forgiven it either.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Anyway , back in the world of Scottish football, it seems that Jonjoe Kenny is on his way to Celtic and former Blue Fraser Hornby is on his way from Reims to the Dons on loan. It’ll be interesting to see how Hornby develops, he was nowhere near first team material for us but has the physicality to hold his own on the SPL if he can get a run of games for Aberdeen.

Think Hornby will resurrect his career up here.

 

[larbert toffee]

Think Hornby will resurrect his career up here.

Niasse would resurrect his career up there tbf.

 

[blueloon]

Think Hornby will resurrect his career up here.

I’ve seen a lot of Hornby for our U23s and various Scotland teams, as a striker at the same age he wasn’t as good as Ellis Simms is at 19. He’s got a decent presence in the box though with his height , for us his ability to finish chances let him down. But in fairness he’s taken chances for Scotland u21s and scored some decent goals there. For Scotland U17s he looked a good prospect as a midfielder, unfortunately the gamble of converting him to a striker didn’t pay off as hoped ..... or maybe it did he could well have not made it anywhere as a midfielder. I’ll watch his progress with interest, but he’s no James Maddison.

 

[PaddyJames]

Celtic were founded to help the poor and impoverished catholic community in Glasgow. So of course catholics would develop an affinity towards them. There wasn't officially an anti catholics signing policy at Rangers. Rangers were traditionally a very socially conservative club, that was set in it's own ways. Rangers were not a popular club with catholics.

You make it sound that catholics, were banging down the doors of Ibrox, to sign for the club. Which wasn't the case at all. Catholics by and large did not want to sign for Rangers, and the club did not really go out of it's way to convince them otherwise. So i think a combination of both of these reasons, was how Rangers ended up, not signing a catholic player for so many years.

Utter scum.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

I’ve seen a lot of Hornby for our U23s and various Scotland teams, as a striker at the same age he wasn’t as good as Ellis Simms is at 19. He’s got a decent presence in the box though with his height , for us his ability to finish chances let him down. But in fairness he’s taken chances for Scotland u21s and scored some decent goals there. For Scotland U17s he looked a good prospect as a midfielder, unfortunately the gamble of converting him to a striker didn’t pay off as hoped ..... or maybe it did he could well have not made it anywhere as a midfielder. I’ll watch his progress with interest, but he’s no James Maddison.

What a player he was and is.
You just see he oozed confidence when playing for the Don's.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Utter scum.

All bonnie loons...

And to be fair,I remember his first old firm game were he got booed by Celtic fans and cheered on by the blue hoardes at parkhead singing mo mo super mo.

 

[catcherintherye]

Celtic were founded to help the poor and impoverished catholic community in Glasgow. So of course catholics would develop an affinity towards them. There wasn't officially an anti catholics signing policy at Rangers. Rangers were traditionally a very socially conservative club, that was set in it's own ways. Rangers were not a popular club with catholics.

You make it sound that catholics, were banging down the doors of Ibrox, to sign for the club. Which wasn't the case at all. Catholics by and large did not want to sign for Rangers, and the club did not really go out of it's way to convince them otherwise. So i think a combination of both of these reasons, was how Rangers ended up, not signing a catholic player for so many years.

I mean you're wrong on this as well. Celtic, like Everton were formed so that all boys, from all communities could play.

Liverpool like Rangers were formed as explicitly Protestant club, for Protestants to play.

Like Celtic, we have never been bothered about where you come from, our only concern is if you are good at football.

Houlding admired Rangers a wanted that vision for Everton, which is partly why he was told to do one, as bigotry wasnt part of our value set. We let him form his own club for to play that little fantasy out.

 

[davek]

Good luck.

 

[laudo9]

Good luck.

View attachment 116296

He'll need it!