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I think you're expecting too much of the role of captain there. You're right insofar as there are captain types who are capable of being fearsome, of conveying to the team that whatever is happening does not meet the standard. And maybe Seamus hasn't always been that. But how could he be, with the mediocrity he's consistently had to work with? How can we expect the captain to reverse the failings of a desperate Martínez, a flailing Silva, the misery of Allardyce-ball or Benitez-ball? What could he really have done better when the chips were down, so consistently and so desperately?Im Irish and absolutely love Seamus Coleman as a player for us down the years. I was right down in front of it at the Aviva when he had that horrific injury and was gutted for him
I completely agree that I dont think any complete slating of him or any abuse has been deserved.
And i dont think a player being out of form and/or struggling as they get older is something to hold against them personally.
However if he is as passionate about the club as he has shown today, I still just dont get some of the performances from him and even average seasons from him when things were not great all these years since Martinez first season. Theres been moments where you couldnt see anything out on the pitch and you looked to the captain and there was just nothing there to be honest. I can remember particularly when things went to crap under Martinez and Silva and I wanted to see him urging us on when behind and hurrying us up to get forward but he was just another quiet ineffective non presence on the field. I remember he used to wind me up taking ages to get the ball and take throw ins when we were behind and needed to get back. The opposite of the stuff we saw today. I still have a bit of a grudge against the players who went to crap under Martinez and Seamus is no exception. I just saw an utter lack of responsibility on the field regardless of the competence of the manager.
There could be other behind the scenes reasons for this stuff, but i wouldnt accept that he always has given 100% and has always been a great captain as from what ive seen thats not the case in a fair few periods over the last 10yrs (yes i know he wasnt captain all that time). We have been utterly woeful and devoid of any spirit regularly under his captaincy.
Having said that, the thought of him lifting the FA Cup does make me smile, and today was fantastic from him
Good to see he still has a chance of being in the plus column with you, was beginning to think you disliked him lolHe's been directly responsible for giving away about 10 goals this season, and he's scored a total of one (plus zero assists as far as I remember) so right now he's on a minus 9.
Correction: the worst Everton player I've seen in FORTY years.
No way, anything to stay relevant, shameless. Surely Frank won't pick him?
'incredible heights'?!
I must have missed that bit and I'm no spring chicken!
Coleman is a top notch brown noser.
Dave I am delighted by that. Btw he will bring along Patterson regardless of his Rangers background. Seamus is all about Everton and not about background.Seamus came out and reinforced his manager's words about him in the press conference by putting in a Warrior's performance.
He's underlined why those who KNOW the score call him Mr Everton.
Think youre being uncharacteristically understated and complimentary, there.Halfwits...
I don't agree that the captain is responsible for much. The manager is responsible for everything and to blame Coleman is wrong. He has always given 100%. He made up for a lack of natural ability with effort.Im Irish and absolutely love Seamus Coleman as a player for us down the years. I was right down in front of it at the Aviva when he had that horrific injury and was gutted for him
I completely agree that I dont think any complete slating of him or any abuse has been deserved.
And i dont think a player being out of form and/or struggling as they get older is something to hold against them personally.
However if he is as passionate about the club as he has shown today, I still just dont get some of the performances from him and even average seasons from him when things were not great all these years since Martinez first season. Theres been moments where you couldnt see anything out on the pitch and you looked to the captain and there was just nothing there to be honest. I can remember particularly when things went to crap under Martinez and Silva and I wanted to see him urging us on when behind and hurrying us up to get forward but he was just another quiet ineffective non presence on the field. I remember he used to wind me up taking ages to get the ball and take throw ins when we were behind and needed to get back. The opposite of the stuff we saw today. I still have a bit of a grudge against the players who went to crap under Martinez and Seamus is no exception. I just saw an utter lack of responsibility on the field regardless of the competence of the manager.
There could be other behind the scenes reasons for this stuff, but i wouldnt accept that he always has given 100% and has always been a great captain as from what ive seen thats not the case in a fair few periods over the last 10yrs (yes i know he wasnt captain all that time). We have been utterly woeful and devoid of any spirit regularly under his captaincy.
Having said that, the thought of him lifting the FA Cup does make me smile, and today was fantastic from him
Of course. That's not his fault though.actually, so am I...but Seamus has not been up to much the past couple of seasons...age and injuries have exacted toll. We need a new RB.
I'm not saying he's fantastic these days. All.o want is a bit of respect for him. For what he's done.He is finished. He played well today though so credit where it’s due. But he needs replacing because that’s about his first good performance this season.
I think you're expecting too much of the role of captain there. You're right insofar as there are captain types who are capable of being fearsome, of conveying to the team that whatever is happening does not meet the standard. And maybe Seamus hasn't always been that. But how could he be, with the mediocrity he's consistently had to work with? How can we expect the captain to reverse the failings of a desperate Martínez, a flailing Silva, the misery of Allardyce-ball or Benitez-ball? What could he really have done better when the chips were down, so consistently and so desperately?
Ultimately, no captain can drag a team on to greater things. It's up to the manager, up to the team, up to the board to put those pieces in place. And they haven't. The fact that Coleman has been unfortunate enough to be captain through an era of egregious failure on these fronts should not reflect so poorly on him.
I think ive probably answered you in my psot above.I don't agree that the captain is responsible for much. The manager is responsible for everything and to blame Coleman is wrong. He has always given 100%. He made up for a lack of natural ability with effort.
Past his best but still valuable.
No I get that, and I don't think it's entirely unfair.No dont get me wrong or read my comment as if i expected something amazing from him as a captain or jsut player. Of course he has played in some crap teams with some players who had no guts at all. I dont expect a captain can fix that completely or even bears a huge part of the responsibility.
However i did expect more than what I saw in some of these moments. Regardless of how poor the coaching was or wasnt in Martinez last 2 seasons I personally believe Seamus and other senior players were not always giving their all out there. And it happened again under Silva and maybe even Koeman. Again just IMO. And if thats because they werent happy with the manager, then thats kind of okay if it happens once but not several times under different managers. I explained the bug bear with him during these times that drove me mad, we are in a crap moment in the season....we have gone behind again, we get a throw...say 20mins left...and Seamus walks over and takes his time to get the ball rather than legging it and getting us back on the ball as fast as he can. I mean it sounds small now but it was driving me crazy at the time week in week out, as I would have expected in those moments to see more of the Seamus of today but it wasnt there....and it was clearly needed. That and other things really stood out back then.
Its a strange day to bring it up considering Im delighted for him, but it kind of annoys me seeing it put out like he is always been as commited and up for it as today. We have had a miserable 10 years give or take some bright spots and the players I think are mostly responsible alongside or just behind recruitment (of players and managers) and the head of those players during these last few seasons is our captain.