2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[Marius57]

Considering how long he's been here without ever making noises about leaving, I wonder if he just loves depressing relegation football.

Means he actually has to do something and is kept busy during the game rather than just standing around. The fans love him. He is close enough that he gets to go back to Sunderland every week. He plays PL and is Englands Number 1.

Yeah, could maybe win trophies somewhere else, but if those teams (the few that actually win cups) don’t come in for him, why would he want to be anywhere else?

 

[Saint Domingo]

I've had this debate. I don't think there's a great deal of difference between us and Forest. They're more of a unit though. It won't be lost on you I'm sure that the players you've mentioned play in positions where we're sorely lacking. Most importantly for them, they have a no9 who is taking the chances he should take.

We’ll see where Forest are at the end of the season, and then see how many points they’ve improved by. Maybe we can then se how much net spend each point improvement cost them, then perhaps we can sell their best midfielder in the summer and see if Nuno ‘improves the players and moves them forward’ again. Thats effectively the comparison with Dyche. Some managers have a decent run of a few games in this league and some on GOT have their pants down for them straight away.

How are De Zerbi, Lage, Potter, Hassnhuttl, Vieira, Rodgers, Selles, Bielsa, Marsch, Wagner etc. doing in the prem these days?

 

[ToffeeScot]

I think if you did a mix of our side and Forest you'd have more of their players than ours but there isn't too much in it. What their achievements this season compared to ours boil down to though is a better manager. Nuno doesn't have a free flowing style but I think he's more Moyes in his aptitude than Dyche.

 

[Carlito]

Means he actually has to do something and is kept busy during the game rather than just standing around. The fans love him. He is close enough that he gets to go back to Sunderland every week. He plays PL and is Englands Number 1.

Yeah, could maybe win trophies somewhere else, but if those teams (the few that actually win cups) don’t come in for him, why would he want to be anywhere else?

I mean, I'm not complaining.

If we do stay up, it'll probably have a lot to do with him being better than the other turds' goalkeepers.

 

[Carlito]

We’ll see where Forest are at the end of the season, and then see how many points they’ve improved by. Maybe we can then se how much net spend each point improvement cost them, then perhaps we can sell their best midfielder in the summer and see if Nuno ‘improves the players and moves them forward’ again. Thats effectively the comparison with Dyche. Some managers have a decent run of a few games in this league and some on GOT have their pants down for them straight away.

How are De Zerbi, Lage, Potter, Hassnhuttl, Vieira, Rodgers, Selles, Bielsa, Marsch, Wagner etc. doing in the prem these days?

Nuno's time at Wolves is enough to demonstrate that he's a cut above the likes of Dyche.

We may as well have Bruce or Pulis in charge next if this is the standard. They'd do the same job for a fraction of the price.

 

[Lanolin]

I think if you did a mix of our side and Forest you'd have more of their players than ours but there isn't too much in it. What their achievements this season compared to ours boil down to though is a better manager. Nuno doesn't have a free flowing style but I think he's more Moyes in his aptitude than Dyche.

They probably do have a better manager but that's not the big difference between the 2. The big difference is that all the players you would take of theirs are attacking players and thats what makes the difference in this league. They have absolutely shedloads of pace in the side to play on the counter - including depth which allows them to rotate between and during games - and a striker who is a reliable goalscorer. They are things we massively lack. In short there might not be a huge difference in quality between the 2 sides overall, but they are a much more balanced side than we are and that makes an enormous difference.

 

[ToffeeScot]

They probably do have a better manager but that's not the big difference between the 2. The big difference is that all the players you would take of theirs are attacking players and thats what makes the difference in this league. They have absolutely shedloads of pace in the side to play on the counter - including depth which allows them to rotate between and during games - and a striker who is a reliable goalscorer. They are things we massively lack. In short there might not be a huge difference in quality between the 2 sides overall, but they are a much more balanced side than we are and that makes an enormous difference.

I'd take Murillo and I'd have Ndiaye over either of their wide players. I think Nuno could get the same out of Lindstrom and Ndiaye as he does out of Elanga and Hudson-Odoi. I think we do lack but we don't lack as much as people suggest we do. Some players are also being held back by the tactical style of the manager and would be better under a better manager such as Nuno. I agree though that their depth helps them a lot, something we just do not have.

 

[degsy]

Why are all our players knackered 70 mins every game?

Not enough Ainsdale?

 

[Lanolin]

I'd take Murillo and I'd have Ndiaye over either of their wide players. I think Nuno could get the same out of Lindstrom and Ndiaye as he does out of Elanga and Hudson-Odoi. I think we do lack but we don't lack as much as people suggest we do. Some players are also being held back by the tactical style of the manager and would be better under a better manager such as Nuno. I agree though that their depth helps them a lot, something we just do not have.

Lindstrom is nothing like their wide players though thats the point, in fact according to most people on here he isn't even a wide player at all (although I appreciate that people may change their mind on that if it suits the narrative they want to push). The question isn't whether Lindstrom has as much footballing ability in theory as Elanga and Hudson-Odoi, it's whether he can offer as much in a system as they do. The pace and directness they offer is a massive part of what Forest do, they've built a squad with players they actually want who fit a particular system. We have a random assortment of players accumulated over a number of years based mainly on what payment terms their clubs would accept, it makes a massive difference.

 

[ToffeeScot]

Lindstrom is nothing like their wide players though thats the point, in fact according to most people on here he isn't even a wide player at all (although I appreciate that people may change their mind on that if it suits the narrative they want to push). The question isn't whether Lindstrom has as much footballing ability in theory as Elanga and Hudson-Odoi, it's whether he can offer as much in a system as they do. The pace and directness they offer is a massive part of what Forest do, they've built a squad with players they actually want who fit a particular system. We have a random assortment of players accumulated over a number of years based mainly on what payment terms their clubs would accept, it makes a massive difference.

One of the key assets of Lindstrom when he was at Frankfurt was his pace and directness.

Again, I feel like a better manager would get more out of our players, including our attacking quartet who are horribly mismanaged by Dyche because he's a manager that places little onus on attacking systems. Nuno is a far more balanced and better manager.

 

[Lanolin]

One of the key assets of Lindstrom when he was at Frankfurt was his pace and directness.

Again, I feel like a better manager would get more out of our players, including our attacking quartet who are horribly mismanaged by Dyche because he's a manager that places little onus on attacking systems. Nuno is a far more balanced and better manager.

I'm not sure why some people are so bothered about the takeover the way they talk about stuff. If we can finish 11th with all of our players being horribly mismanaged, it should be pretty easy for us to be pushing the champions league spots with the squad we've got just by appointing a vaguely competent manager. I look forward to it happening.

 

[ToffeeScot]

I'm not sure why some people are so bothered about the takeover the way they talk about stuff. If we can finish 11th with all of our players being horribly mismanaged, it should be pretty easy for us to be pushing the champions league spots with the squad we've got just by appointing a vaguely competent manager. I look forward to it happening.

Ah, I see. So you're jumping to an extreme situation and making up stuff I haven't said to try and prove your point? I haven't said all our players are horribly mismanaged or we should be pushing for the CL spots. I just think we have a side capable of doing better, especially in an attacking sense and it is those players I believe are being horribly mismanaged.

We finished with the 2nd least amount of goals scored last season.

We have the 3rd least amount of goals scored this season. We have two different players in our attacking quartet this season in Ndiaye and Lindstrom, they didn't get us to 11th yet people would probably say Ndiaye is better than any attacker we had last season or this season.

Now, either that's a problem with the personnel or the manager. In some aspects I think it's the players, in others I think it's the manager.

 

[Lanolin]

Ah, I see. So you're jumping to an extreme situation and making up stuff I haven't said to try and prove your point? I haven't said all our players are horribly mismanaged or we should be pushing for the CL spots. I just think we have a side capable of doing better, especially in an attacking sense and it is those players I believe are being horribly mismanaged.

We finished with the 2nd least amount of goals scored last season.

We have the 3rd least amount of goals scored this season. We have two different players in our attacking quartet this season in Ndiaye and Lindstrom, they didn't get us to 11th yet people would probably say Ndiaye is better than any attacker we had last season or this season.

Now, either that's a problem with the personnel or the manager. In some aspects I think it's the players, in others I think it's the manager.

No not at all, some people are insistent that everything Dyche is doing is wrong and 'horribly mismanaged' is a bit more than 'not really getting the best out of' isn't it? It suggests that things could be vastly better if we were even just looking at a normal manager, so yes I think by default the suggestion there is that we could do much better than finishing 11th if we weren't horribly mismanaging players, it's hard to come to any other conclusion really. I think we have forward players which - with the exception of one season for DCL about 5 years ago - have no real record of scoring or assisting in this league or the top level in general. I don't believe that Beto, Harrison, Lindstrom etc have been brought in because they're exactly what we want and they fit the profile we're looking for, I think they've been brought in because their clubs didn't want paying for them. I don't think it's particularly difficult to understand that a side which has been recruited with a proper plan in mind is likely to be better than a ragtag assortment of players who you can get on the drip even if the difference in quality of individuals isn't that big.

In terms of your last point, it's pretty obviously both.

 

[NathDogg]

Considering how long he's been here without ever making noises about leaving, I wonder if he just loves depressing relegation football.

it’s probably just about better than playing for the Sunderland team he was part of, so pickers is happy.

Plus there’s very little expectation here, he plays for England and gets slated every time practically, if he want to a team challenging for things he would probably get the same treatment - we know he’s probably one of our best players here and he’s treated accordingly, another reason to stay. He would get battered at other teams for the slightest mistake as he does for the national team.

 

[MikeH72]

No not at all, some people are insistent that everything Dyche is doing is wrong and 'horribly mismanaged' is a bit more than 'not really getting the best out of' isn't it? It suggests that things could be vastly better if we were even just looking at a normal manager, so yes I think by default the suggestion there is that we could do much better than finishing 11th if we weren't horribly mismanaging players, it's hard to come to any other conclusion really. I think we have forward players which - with the exception of one season for DCL about 5 years ago - have no real record of scoring or assisting in this league or the top level in general. I don't believe that Beto, Harrison, Lindstrom etc have been brought in because they're exactly what we want and they fit the profile we're looking for, I think they've been brought in because their clubs didn't want paying for them. I don't think it's particularly difficult to understand that a side which has been recruited with a proper plan in mind is likely to be better than a ragtag assortment of players who you can get on the drip even if the difference in quality of individuals isn't that big.

In terms of your last point, it's pretty obviously both.

Has someone suggested we can finish much better than 11th? I’ve missed quite a bit in this thread over the last day so it’s possible someone has. Most people seem to be suggesting we can do much better than the relegation battle we currently look to be heading for.