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2023/24 Sean Dyche

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Neiler said:
We're better without having to create, but also think we are better with it then early season there arent many higher midtable teams and below keeping us out for 90 mins if we have McNeill, Doucoure, Harrison, DCL and Beto available.

It worked early season with Fulham and Wolves - i think we've evolved a bit from since then, although its not our core strength and tbf its how id play against us.
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Silva is a good manager and would have seen what we do. Last time in August when they won here they struggled badly when they had 60% of possession. He knew if they replicated that again they'd be found out this time around.

I've been saying for weeks we've been getting away with this tactic of low possession and that when opponents got their heads around it they'd make life difficult for us.

That'll happen more at home than away, but Dyche better have a plan B to go to or it'll be like it was for Roberto in his second 18 months at the club when playing at Goodison.
 
davek said:
Silva is a good manager and would have seen what we do. Last time in August when they won here they struggled badly when they had 60% of possession. He knew if they replicated that again they'd be found out this time around.

I've been saying for weeks we've been getting away with this tactic of low possession and that when opponents got their heads around it they'd make life difficult for us.

That'll happen more at home than away, but Dyche better have a plan B to go to or it'll be like it was for Roberto in his second 18 months at the club when playing at Goodison.
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Easier said than done, this. We've had the same problem for years in that if teams sit in and let us have the ball, we lack the quality to break teams down. This isn't a Dyche issue. It's why the first goal is so important for us - if the other side score it, it's usually bad news as it allows them to sit in and puts the onus on us.

I can't see this changing without more creative players and that isn't happening any time soon.

But - credit remains to Dyche for finding a way of making us competitive even with that limitation.
 
Nymzee said:
Taking a free-kick/corner has nothing to do with taking penalties.
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Ok well, however you define it, ball striking or finishing or whatever, I don’t see how Onana was among the five best technically to take one. I’m a fan of his but like Gana I’d have shooting down as a weakness.

Yes, it’s also about confidence and I’m sure Onana demanded the headline penalty but as we saw you can have too much of a good thing.
 
davek said:
Silva is a good manager and would have seen what we do. Last time in August when they won here they struggled badly when they had 60% of possession. He knew if they replicated that again they'd be found out this time around.

I've been saying for weeks we've been getting away with this tactic of low possession and that when opponents got their heads around it they'd make life difficult for us.

That'll happen more at home than away, but Dyche better have a plan B to go to or it'll be like it was for Roberto in his second 18 months at the club when playing at Goodison.
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Id be openminded on your point - its also something ive suspected for a while and id be curious on the upcoming games against Wolves and Fulham as a test as their managers will play the %s. Im thinking of it as more of a theory at the moment, but am open minded on it and half suspicious about it to.

When you go through the league there are far more dogmatic then pragmatic managers - a load of Lampards if you will and i think that overall will work for us - bar one or two.
 

toffeeblue9 said:
Easier said than done, this. We've had the same problem for years in that if teams sit in and let us have the ball, we lack the quality to break teams down. This isn't a Dyche issue. It's why the first goal is so important for us - if the other side score it, it's usually bad news as it allows them to sit in and puts the onus on us.

I can't see this changing without more creative players and that isn't happening any time soon.

But - credit remains to Dyche for finding a way of making us competitive even with that limitation.
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Sticking with one up front at all times is something he needs to look at. If we go behind in games we have to gamble a bit.
 
Neiler said:
Id be openminded on your point - its also something ive suspected for a while and id be curious on the upcoming games against Wolves and Fulham as a test as there managers will play the %s. Im thinking of it as more of a theory at the moment, but am open minded on it and half suspicious about it to.

When you go through the league their are far more dogmatic then pragmatic managers - aload of Lampard if you will and teams and i think that overall will work for us - bar one or two.
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That's true enough.

But I fear that - just as teams late on in Martinez's first season figured out that we went with split CBs and built up from that the press came and we struggled - enough poor teams will turn up between now and the end of the season and sit very deep and only counter.

I really think we need to be a lot bolder if that happens.

I take the point made by you and others that the first goal dictates matters and I'd mix it up in different games and play Beto and DCL from the off, get the lead and revert back to one up front and hit opponents on the break.
 
davek said:
That's true enough.

But I fear that - just as teams late on in Martinez's first season figured out that we went with split CBs and built up from that the press came and we struggled - enough poor teams will turn up between now and the end of the season and sit very deep and only counter.

I really think we need to be a lot bolder if that happens.

I take the point made by you and others that the first goal dictates matters and I'd mix it up in different games and play Beto and DCL from the off, get the lead and revert back to one up front and hit opponents on the break.
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He isn't going to do that though Dave, if you listen to his comments on in game substitutions and the like he believes his way of playing is the right way and he won't change things unless it's down to injury or severe fatigue regardless of the opponent. He doesn't have a plan B. We have to hope that if enough teams start doing what Fulham did then it will force him into coming up with one.
 
toffeeblue9 said:
Easier said than done, this. We've had the same problem for years in that if teams sit in and let us have the ball, we lack the quality to break teams down. This isn't a Dyche issue. It's why the first goal is so important for us - if the other side score it, it's usually bad news as it allows them to sit in and puts the onus on us.

I can't see this changing without more creative players and that isn't happening any time soon.

But - credit remains to Dyche for finding a way of making us competitive even with that limitation.
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It’s definitely a dyche issue, he’s been here 12 months and hasn’t solved it or even looked like solving it, by doing something different. Even the Luton manager put a 3rd CB on at half time, because he knew exactly what the tactic would be.

Doing great when we go in front, terriblly when we go behind. And more and more teams will start to change tactics v us, 3 CB’s maybe, or certainly their biggest ones. Denfend your box well and you nullify a lot of our threat
 
Simon Buttle said:
He isn't going to do that though Dave, if you listen to his comments on in game substitutions and the like he believes his way of playing is the right way and he won't change things unless it's down to injury or severe fatigue regardless of the opponent. He doesn't have a plan B. We have to hope that if enough teams start doing what Fulham did then it will force him into coming up with one.
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He won’t change and that’s why he won’t be here that long. Yes he’s pleasantly surprised us at times, with his counter attacking and pressing. But he still has that David Moyes streak of being over cautious. Yes his hands were tied a little. But to pay 3 CB’s and 3 defensive midfielders all game in a cup Q/final at home is poor imo.

Could have played 2 strikers, could have p played danjuma at 10 or dobbin wide Harrison at 10. The let’s hope we score first tactic, will wear off quickly.

But he will always imo, rather a doucoure type at number 10, hard working wide players. Can’t see him going for a more maverick type, who has speed and tricks to occasionally kill a full back. Which can turn a game. More likely to play with solid full backs than ones that will fly forward. I don’t think he will even change sadly
 

davek said:
That's true enough.

But I fear that - just as teams late on in Martinez's first season figured out that we went with split CBs and built up from that the press came and we struggled - enough poor teams will turn up between now and the end of the season and sit very deep and only counter.

I really think we need to be a lot bolder if that happens.

I take the point made by you and others that the first goal dictates matters and I'd mix it up in different games and play Beto and DCL from the off, get the lead and revert back to one up front and hit opponents on the break.
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I dont necessarily disagree mate, if i was me id play against us and ask us to break my team down. However i do think we have a couple more layers, we've snares all over the pitch, and a press on each line, until it comes to the danger zone and then a full on low block, i think we are less suspectable to the counter - i think Brighton was the last goal on the counter and that was a freak, we look a ot more solid. Another facet is we bully teams physically and athletically, we are big team, we are a high engine team, we are a hard team - so if you wan to impose your game on us - you have to beat us on those three measures to assert dominance.

As i say with Dom, Beto Harrison. McNeill and the Duke available it will be a good team that keeps us out and if they do they deserve it - i think we only had the Duke in the Wolves and Fulham games.

Id like to see us with a player that can stand on the ball more to be honest, that Arteta or Jamo - maybe that will come.

The Duke is a big miss, hes te lynch pin of that system. So id be very open minded at being flexible with a formation, with DCL and Beto a 3-5-2 maybe particualrly with the Duke out......
 
Nymzee said:
I mean I've never really paid attention to who does this for other teams.

But conversly, I can think of plenty of people who can take a pen that can't take free-kicks/corners.
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I would normally assume a decent set piece taker can strike a pen it would just come down to mentallity
 

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