Sheedy on Moyes

[Ruairi77]

Poppycock.

Please, show me the list of players that have "proven Moyes wrong".

Players are either good or not, you mention Jags and Baines, they had a will to succeed and the actual talent to do it, players ARE either good or bad, theres no middle ground.

Sometimes it's hard to tell when you're joking. You've never seen an average footballer?

 

[Goat]

I still wake up in a cold sweat at the prospect of Osman/Neville/Heitinga playing CM.

 

[Walken]

Was he ignoring the youth, though? Very few of these youths where battering down the door to be picked. And yeah, Osman and Neville wasn't great, but that was reflective of our financial situation, Moyes' desire to have his voice on the pitch in Neville and a lack of other viable options from the academy.

Wallace was playing better football than either, albeit at a lower level, he had been ignored by moyes despite the youth team staffs call, he should have already been developed using loans and training periods with the first team. Fellaini could have done a better job than either in CM, and Barkley been used as AM, again Moyes wouldn't budge. People can talk about these youth team players and say well they should be better players then, I honestly dont think it mattered how good they were, we had a top class player in Barkley, how much better are they gonna be, and he still got ignored and treated like a leper when it came to playing matters. Moyes hindered the youth at the club, to what degree is impossible to prove, but I am fully convinced that he did

 

[Ihaters]

Can only assume by showing no interest in the youth team, Sheedy means Moyes never spent time watching them, he certainly used several of our youth products and added several of his own to that group.

Regardless, lets just hope that Martinez has got on his hands, young players with the potential we have heard about from the likes of Hope, Ledson, Lundstram, Kenny, Green, Long to bring through in the future as well.

Martinez has apparently got excellent youth pedigree, and with the quality we already know we can bring through our academy, combined with a manager confident enough to do just that, we can do great things in the years ahead...

 

[bluemangroup]

Wallace was playing better football than either, albeit at a lower level, he had been ignored by moyes despite the youth team staffs call, he should have already been developed using loans and training periods with the first team. Fellaini could have done a better job than either in CM, and Barkley been used as AM, again Moyes wouldn't budge. People can talk about these youth team players and say well they should be better players then, I honestly dont think it mattered how good they were, we had a top class player in Barkley, how much better are they gonna be, and he still got ignored and treated like a leper when it came to playing matters. Moyes hindered the youth at the club, to what degree is impossible to prove, but I am fully convinced that he did

Barkley at that time was raw as hell and Wallace has never ever played at that level or really shown signs that he could've been the answer. He's doing well at Tranmere and he's a player I'd like to see at a higher level, but to look at him in the academy and think he is definitely ready to compete in a vital position in the league requires an enormous leap of faith from anyone, let alone a conservative natured guy like Moyes. Neville and Osman was a hideous combination, but on occasion it was effective. Just like Fellaini in AM was very effective. It got us points, which was Moyes' primary concern when he was here.

 

[Ihaters]

I still wake up in a cold sweat at the prospect of Osman/Neville/Heitinga playing CM.

Not quite the holy trinity was it

 

[Chang Elephant]

Neville and Osman was a hideous combination, but on occasion it was effective.

For the other side though

 

[Tubey]

i'll concede the timing is very suspect, but the fact is it's all true. I don't totally agree with the manner he has done it, in fact i reckon we'll see him gone following this.

Very poor show.

Thing is though, has he done anything wrong really? Yes, I'd say it's poor from an... erm... "moral" point of view, but he owes no allegiance to David Moyes whatsoever, he's no longer an employee at the club, and all he has done is comment on things in a personal capacity about a subject that was a hot topic on Twitter the other day.

I think he shouldn't have said it as it didn't need to be said, but at least he's showing a bit of passion for the job he does and wants the best for the kids coming through at Goodison. Sure, could be that he's promoting a book, but, as you say, what he said was 100% true.

 

[Walken]

Barkley at that time was raw as hell and Wallace has never ever played at that level or really shown signs that he could've been the answer. He's doing well at Tranmere and he's a player I'd like to see at a higher level, but to look at him in the academy and think he is definitely ready to compete in a vital position in the league requires an enormous leap of faith from anyone, let alone a conservative natured guy like Moyes. Neville and Osman was a hideous combination, but on occasion it was effective. Just like Fellaini in AM was very effective. It got us points, which was Moyes' primary concern when he was here.

It was the worst thing I've ever seen, with felli chasing back to do their job as well, he was no longer effective up top, the shock factor had gone, as shown when moved against arsenal, where barkley shone, and was promptly disappeared as moyes told the fans he knew best. Moyes had been told told by the youth staff Wallace could be an option for 3 seasons, he ignored them, that was his attitude towards youth, wallace wasn't given his first loan till he was 21. Had he been brought along properly he would have been an option at that point, or at least competition, this is what I mean when I say Moyes has hindered players progress, they arent all going to be Barkley, but like Barkley himself they would be further along the line had it not been for moyes

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Barkley at that time was raw as hell and Wallace has never ever played at that level or really shown signs that he could've been the answer.

But therein lies the issue.. He was never ever given the chance to play at that level

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Thing is though, has he done anything wrong really? Yes, I'd say it's poor from an... erm... "moral" point of view, but he owes no allegiance to David Moyes whatsoever, he's no longer an employee at the club, and all he has done is comment on things in a personal capacity about a subject that was a hot topic on Twitter the other day.

I think he shouldn't have said it as it didn't need to be said, but at least he's showing a bit of passion for the job he does and wants the best for the kids coming through at Goodison. Sure, could be that he's promoting a book, but, as you say, what he said was 100% true.

Its like most things in professional employment, they 'can deem' anything he says as they wish.

I would give him a slap on the wrist like, but i dunno this club anymore.

 

[kenada_blue]

Agard - 3 years later he is playing for Rotherham but you think at 21 we should have played him. Based on what?
Jukewitz - He's now a decent championship player.
Kissock - drifted around lower league teams
Bjarne - everyone knew he could pass. That was it.
Plessis - at 26 has yet to manage 50 league starts in his career.
Duffy - Martinez loaned him out
Victor - Martinez sold
McAleny - Martinbez loaned him out
Gueye - Martinez doesn't even give bench time.

I'm not saying Moyes didn't make mistakes on that but you choose the most bizarre players to have a problem with their game time.

Didn't Mustafi get a Germany call up last week?

 

[toffee-fellaini]

Not quite the holy trinity was it

More like the triangle of doom.

 

[bluemangroup]

But therein lies the issue.. He was never ever given the chance to play at that level

It's certainly plausible that Moyes could have done more, but a club in our position, where a lot rests on that precious commodity of points, could probably not afford to take the risk in the league. I think maybe he could have drip fed a few minutes or at least put one or two in cup games. But then you get people saying we don't take cups seriously. He was very much damned if he did or damned if he didn't, really.

 

[canuckblue]

Not sure if serious ?

It was a variation on "Tell us how you really feel." I was in complete agreement.