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Sheedy on Moyes

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You talk as if players are either good enough or not. That isn't the case. Potential blossoms at different times depending on how they're nurtured.

Take Baines - released, brought through at Wigan correctly, given game time, now a top player.

Jagielka, deemed not good enough, went to the lower leagues early, developed properly, now a top player.

Countless other examples of players written off as teens and eventually making it. The problem with Moyes at Everton was that there were very few exceptions to this rule, and even examples of players going away and becoming good players are few and far between. That suggests the system itself was broken under Moyes and development was subject to a glass ceiling.

Imagine you're a youth player at Everton - you make turbo progress through the ranks, you hit the reserves aged 18... then you're farmed off to League 1 ad nauseum or, at best, given a place on the bench a few times. Of course you're going to stagnate as a footballer.

Adam Forshaw is the perfect example. Rocketed up the ranks, reserves in 2008-ish, got a few first team looks when it didn't matter if he came in or not, Reserve Player of the Year when he was released the very same year. Did doing the business in the reserves translate to a chance under Moyes? No, of course not. He might have made it, he might not have done - but there's no way of knowing as he wasn't given the slightest chance. You know, like Leon Osman was? He got given games in a struggling squad and I remember it as clear as day - he came on, changed games, and people were then clamouring to see more of him. And then he got his chance consistently and, in his early to mid 20's, he was a breath of fresh air - proof of a development system in action. We've seen absolutely nothing of the sort at Everton ever since!!!

Before Moyes, if players were deemed as not good enough, they were released and perhaps came back to prove us wrong. Under Moyes, it seems like players were proactively stopped from being good enough, due to a massive mistrust of youth.

Poppycock.

Please, show me the list of players that have "proven Moyes wrong".

Players are either good or not, you mention Jags and Baines, they had a will to succeed and the actual talent to do it, players ARE either good or bad, theres no middle ground.
 
What on earth has any of that got to do with Sheedy tweeting about Moyes?
I imply he was given too much freedom at our club - BK thought the sun shone out of his backside - some fans on here thought it was a disaster him moving - my long time 65 year old brother new better - what sheeds has allegedly said on twitter is no surprise to me, and my brother!
 
i'll concede the timing is very suspect, but the fact is it's all true. I don't totally agree with the manner he has done it, in fact i reckon we'll see him gone following this.

Very poor show.
 
i'll concede the timing is very suspect, but the fact is it's all true. I don't totally agree with the manner he has done it, in fact i reckon we'll see him gone following this.

Very poor show.

I doubt the club would sack him for speaking his mind about a former manager.

I suppose it depends how far hes still up Kenwrongs bum hole.
 
I got friendly with one of the youth team performance anaylsts during the last few years of the moyes area, said moyes would pick jack in the side, then pick him apart tactically, till the point he terrified to go near the ball, at this point jack was 17, and was rated as the best player of his age in europe.

I know it sounds like a contridiction mate, but he's convinced it hindered him, and when you see capello and mancini got better performances out of him in about the 5 games he was fit, there might be some truth in it

The converse view would be that he developed into a player who was a first choice of Moyes before he left at 21 and maybe the tactical advice given to him by Moyes in his early days paid dividends, given that he ended up moving to the League Champions for £15m....

I've no doubt Moyes was / is very demanding of youngsters and I can see how he'd be seen as terrifying by some, but I think blooding youngsters at this level is a very difficult balancing act tbf.
 

The converse view would be that he developed into a player who was a first choice of Moyes before he left at 21 and maybe the tactical advice given to him by Moyes in his early days paid dividends, given that he ended up moving to the League Champions for £15m....

I've no doubt Moyes was / is very demanding of youngsters and I can see how he'd be seen as terrifying by some, but I think blooding youngsters at this level is a very difficult balancing act tbf.
No doubt, but one I think moyes misjudged too often for me
 
But what standard are we holding him to? How many other academy graduates at other clubs make it into the first team?

Not many at all, our academy has done excellently compared to most other clubs

Chelsea for example have had 1 academy graduate this century and that is John Terry
 

But what standard are we holding him to? How many other academy graduates at other clubs make it into the first team?
If you want to run a club like ours with theses finances and still challenge, its something any sensible manager would put more time into, instead of persisting with old favourites, another area he lacked bottle
 
If you want to run a club like ours with theses finances and still challenge, its something any sensible manager would put more time into, instead of persisting with old favourites, another area he lacked bottle
I agree, if the reserves are of a competitive standard. If they aren't....well then you've got little option but to persist with old favourites.
 
I agree, if the reserves are of a competitive standard. If they aren't....well then you've got little option but to persist with old favourites.
he prided himself on being in total control at everton, to ignore the youth in out financial situation is criminal, when we had osman and neville in CM, dreadful partnership, there were youth players who should have already been developed more at this point through loans and such, that could have offered competition, one of them left for less money than he was offered at everton, such was moyes attitude towards youth
 
he prided himself on being in total control at everton, to ignore the youth in out financial situation is criminal, when we had osman and neville in CM, dreadful partnership, there were youth players who should have already been developed more at this point through loans and such, that could have offered competition, one of them left for less money than he was offered at everton, such was moyes attitude towards youth
Was he ignoring the youth, though? Very few of these youths where battering down the door to be picked. And yeah, Osman and Neville wasn't great, but that was reflective of our financial situation, Moyes' desire to have his voice on the pitch in Neville and a lack of other viable options from the academy.
 

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