Sheedy on Moyes

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Completely different point.



It's not me that needs to let go pal - bitterness is clearly clouding judgement here.

It was in reply to "Did you enjoy his winner" if Moyes was there he wouldn't have scored it.

As for the bitterness, I witnessed 1st hand the glares of "How dare you" aimed at our support when he subbed 1st a forward for a defender against a bottom 3 team and it was booed, he did it again when Fellaini was subbed against Wigan and he mistakenly though it was the substitution that was being booed as opposed to the inept cba performance by the player, there was pure venom in his eyes & on his face, despite the fact that 1 person thought differently to 37k others.
Then he disrespected us & OUR club during the summer, so yeah i'll enjoy sticking it into him up until when he's ultimately given the boot for ineptitude, although when that happens I'll prob wish that they hadn't done it until he's wrecked them beyond recognition, something that he appears to be fast tracking at present.


Maybe if we can give them a proper drubbing at Goodison and I can have my say and hurl my two penneth down the line I'll be able to move on, hopefully it'll be a big win and Roberto will do the hand to nose thing at the end instead of shaking hands.
I wanna see that Big Martinez Smile and his dour face with the dummy out, hopefully he'll spit it that much he goes for him and Big Dunc steps in and Freunds him before Sheeds appears out of the stands with a cultured left footer.

I want his Goodison return to be the worst day he has ever encountered.

 

[graeme2911]

I'm still not fully convinced it really is Sheedy - the account was only created 11 days ago, and Utds loss was the first chance since to berate Moyes.

 

[canuckblue]

It was in reply to "Did you enjoy his winner" if Moyes was there he wouldn't have scored it.

As for the bitterness, I witnessed 1st hand the glares of "How dare you" aimed at our support when he subbed 1st a forward for a defender against a bottom 3 team and it was booed, he did it again when Fellaini was subbed against Wigan and he mistakenly though it was the substitution that was being booed as opposed to the inept cba performance by the player, there was pure venom in his eyes & on his face, despite the fact that 1 person thought differently to 37k others.
Then he disrespected us & OUR club during the summer, so yeah i'll enjoy sticking it into him up until when he's ultimately given the boot for ineptitude, although when that happens I'll prob wish that they hadn't done it until he's wrecked them beyond recognition, something that he appears to be fast tracking at present.


Maybe if we can give them a proper drubbing at Goodison and I can have my say and hurl my two penneth down the line I'll be able to move on, hopefully it'll be a big win and Roberto will do the hand to nose thing at the end instead of shaking hands.
I wanna see that Big Martinez Smile and his dour face with the dummy out, hopefully he'll spit it that much he goes for him and Big Dunc steps in and Freunds him before Sheeds appears out of the stands with a cultured left footer.

I want his Goodison return to be the worst day he has ever encountered.

Why do you want to take it easy on the man?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

My beef with the whole Moyes era on the youth side of things is precisely that we didn't have many young players come through in his decade at the club.

When we don't have much money, having a couple of England quality youngsters coming through could have been a real boost, but that never really happened. As the manager, Moyes has to take a degree of responsibility for that as well.

Absolutely - but then so does the academy staff

 

[Pabbers]

It's clear Moyes was risk averse for a lot of the time. But that might actually benefit some players, giving them time to develop and learn. Obviously it doesn't work for all players and a few have left to get regular game time and all credit to them for it. But are we really missing out?

Give him a young defender, and he will do well with him, give him an attacker, or player that plays on impulse & raw talent, he will struggle. IMO though.

Im not sure we have massively missed out on any talents though, but I would also NOT list this as one of his strong points.

 

[graeme2911]

It's not as black & white as saying Moyes did or didn't trust/use the youth. He probably made some mistakes, but he definitely made some contributions.
I was fed up of Moyes in the last year or so, and have said on numerous occasions I think he regressed as a manager in recent years, but it's not just a case of saying he was great or rubbish at X, Y and Z.


There were no doubt times when Moyes was too cautious and afraid to use the youth. Mustafi / Duffy could have been trusted a little more, when a first choice CB was out, much like Stones is being used this season. Or someone like Velios or another striker when our roster of 1st teamers went turd. Barkley could have been utilised more towards the end of last season too.

On the other hand, some say Coleman may have been our 1st choice RB a year earlier if given the chance then. He might have had 8 stinkers in a row and been shipped to Burnley or somewhere. He might not have had been the player he is now if he didn't have that loan experience or right wing playing time.
Forshaw probably needed to go and play regular football to get to the standard he is now. We couldn't afford him that at a team in the top 7 of the PL. Same with Jose Baxter who is looking to be a decent player in the lower divisions.

I thought he used Rodwell and brought him through very well. When he was fit, he did get a lot of games. Shame he was inhibited by injuries and attitude (not enough cajones, rather than lazy etc).


There are too many hypotheticals to say one way or the other definitely.

People these days expect a youth prospect to break into a nail down a place in the senior squad every season. It doesn't happen, unless you are Barcelona with La Masia. If you looked at the number of professional footballers in this country, I would imagine that a slightly higher than average proportion come from Everton compared to the rest of the PL, which shows that we have a very good academy. Making the step up to PL professional is a huge step, which is underappreciated by many.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

It's one thing to sign a youth player, moyes did that regularly, it's another thing to nurture and show trust in that talent, moyes did not do.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Saying Moyes mis-handled Coleman's development is a revision too far. Seamus was the raw-est of talents when he came over - he said himself in that interview that he couldn't believe the technical level of players like Jose Baxter (even) in training, and that he felt like there was massive ground to be made up. To play at his current level from that starting point is a superb achievement - and vindicates the cautious approach in his case. I mean you can say Moyes did it by accident if you like, but no way is the timescale wrong for where Seamus is today. He would have been making serious mistakes right, left and centre if he'd played more in his early years with us, which would have buried his confidence.

If anyone's looking for (another) stick to beat Moyes with then his management of Baines in the early days doesn't reflect well on him. An obvious class player who just needed a bit of nurturing - could easily have gone wrong there given how he was sidelined with Lescott playing left back.

Some very good points there

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Why do you want to take it easy on the man?

Not sure if serious ?

 

[royalblue66]

Just wish OFM could get himself a job in another country,as far away as possible.

 

[caught]

Yes?

Coleman - a no mark in a no mark league. Moyes signed him and played him. He wasn't afraid to give him that chance, suggesting if the academy was producing players good enough, Moyes would have played them.

Stones - A deadline day signing when the pressure was on and Moyes brought him in. Doesn't give youth a chance? Then why sign a teenager from Barnsley for £3m? He was never going to feature last season, he needed to bed in and have a pre-season behind him.

But the point is that Moyes showed no interest in our academy isn't it? Which is different to signing well-scouted young players.

 

[bluemangroup]

Give him a young defender, and he will do well with him, give him an attacker, or player that plays on impulse & raw talent, he will struggle. IMO though.

Im not sure we have massively missed out on any talents though, but I would also NOT list this as one of his strong points.

That's the point though isn't it really? He probably shouldn't be lauded as a great manager of youth players, as his notable successes are circumstantial, but he's also not destroying careers. It's also down to how you perceive Moyes as to whether or not he did right by these impulsive raw talents. Does he shackle them or try and develop more rounded players?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Absolutely - but then so does the academy staff

Oh without doubt. I mean we're all just speculating here as to why things didn't work out. We've seen fitness issues curtail the likes of Vaughan and Rodwell, behaviour issues doing likewise to guys like Kissock and Baxter.

None of us really know the reasons behind our relative lack of youth success during the Moyes era, but our production line didn't seem to work. I mean it seems fair to say that our scouting was pretty good, as we brought in some good young players, whether it was Coleman, Mustafi, Stones, Ruddy or (hopefully) Green.

Somewhere along the way though it seems the conveyor belt had a bump in it that stopped enough of those guys progressing to the first team. I mean for most of the Moyes era our squad was paper thin. It should have been a perfect environment to give youngsters a go, but it didn't really happen, and I've no idea why.

 

[Pabbers]

That's the point though isn't it really? He probably shouldn't be lauded as a great manager of youth players, as his notable successes are circumstantial, but he's also not destroying careers. It's also down to how you perceive Moyes as to whether or not he did right by these impulsive raw talents. Does he shackle them or try and develop more rounded players?

Almost a diffrent point really.

The problem that Moyes seemed to have, is also a problem with English football in general.

18 - 21 year olds development.

 

[bluemangroup]

Almost a diffrent point really.

The problem that Moyes seemed to have, is also a problem with English football in general.

18 - 21 year olds development.

It's not that different a point. It's central to how he viewed youth and bringing them through. He did it slowly, to the point where people think he stunted careers or gave them the time to become more all round players.