Should Martinez be sacked? (Post-Hull poll)

[maccavennie]

Not all mangers with the 'tearing them to shreds' attitude are always successful. Roy Keane for one. I could see Martinez pulling a player aside and saying you have to improve with that 5 yard ball you sloppily couldn't do, or you should work on your holding the ball up or you should work on your heading ability.

Would Martinez 'tear a shred off them'. He has not always been the Mr Nice guy some are painting him out to be who wouldn't have a go at the players. Martinez's Wigan could be a nasty bunch and kicked us off the park a few years back at their ground. Martinez himself when playing knew that he need to be protected by 'tough' players.

Bruce had no choice as it was a lot of players and the Hull were hurtling down. He made they face up to their responsibilities to him and the supporters. What we don't know is what is going on behind the scenes with Martinez and the players and how he approaches them and whether he is someone that yells at them or attempts to convince them.

For me what is certain is that established professional like Jags, Distin, Barry, Baines who are playing at the moment need to have a long hard look at themselves and ask are they doing everything they an for the cause. Similarly, with Howard, Ossie, Pienaar, Hiibert they should be asking what can we do and give their all for the cause.

Brilliant post and that last paragraph absolutely nails it for me though we can add any number of players into that as well.

 

[Allezfan]

I'd just like to point out that if you'd take a step back from your petty fume and kneejerking over four losses, Borussia Dortmund (yeah, that team that won the Bundesliga twice and reached the Champions League final two season ago, them) are still second last, in the relegation zone of the Bundesliga. They lost 2-1 to Werder Bremen last match.


It can always be worse.

I think I'd rather have won the league twice and reached the cl final and then have a relegation fight this season than win nothing and still have a relegation fight this season, myself tbh.

 

[zandvoort blue]

I don't think Martinez will be sacked by Bill - he'll be given time to sort it out. And I actually think sacking him will only make things so worse in the long run. Name one available or signable manager who would do a better job than Martinez did last year?

So it's not the manager we need to change, it's the players picked to wear the Evertonshirt who need to sort their heads out. The approaches out of this mess start and end with the existing group of players- the same players achieving record points last year.

We have a series of home games coming up. We have to show them that we're behind Bobby on this, and make clear to those jogging around, making mistakes, being gash and laughing at the end of the game with their mates from the opp after losing again or not giving 100% for the Everton shirt what we think of them. I'm not advocating a Nyarko type protest, but Goodison needs to make it clear that we are behind Martinez and expect the players to fight for the blue shirt. If there are gobshItes in the team, then single them out for loads against West Ham and Man City. I'm seeing this behaviour only in Distin (and to some extent, Barry) from where I'm sitting, but it's negativity is infecting the whole group.

I think the players need to get their heads together and resolve to turn this into a fight until we're out of the woods. The thing I'm not seeing on or off the pitch from the players is leadership: Jags needs to step up to the job of Everton Captain. Bollocking players making mistakes, praising the effort, leading by example and getting in the face of officials. If he can't do that job, then we need someone in this crisis that can pickup and wear the Everton armband properly. Would Ratters, Waggy, Reidy or any of the other Titans from the past who have worn that armband have accepted any of the on field dross we've witnessed from this Everton team? I'm embarrassed to see Naismith, Baines and Eto'o doing his job for him over the past month or so.

Never mind the system - whether 4231, 433, 352 or 442- we have been poleaxed this season so far by injuries, missing key players or bringing players half fit into the team again. No doubt we'd be much more like our old selves if we have Stones, Mirallas and McCarthy fully fit again. Because of that, we're completely missing our defensive and attacking intensity of last year. Teams have so much time and space against us, whether to turn in front of our defence or to get numbers back as another counter attack stutters. One reason I want Besic as a starter alongside McCarthy instead of Barry is the energy level (he needs to cutout the brainless hacks and slideys tho...). Same with Oviedo yesterday and Garbutt a few weeks ago. We have looked so much better with some defensive legs in the team. If Martinez can find ways to bring them into the team, then I think we can counteract one of the main reasons for the slump. Also a replacement keeper, experienced centre back and pacy winger would not go amiss in January window, but we can't rely on that. So - I know I'll be crucified for this on here, but - I'd like to try Coleman, Browning, Stones, Garbutt as the starting back line, with McCarthy and Besic in front of them. A young Everton backline, high-energy, fighting for the shirt would be preferable to the shambles we're seeing week in week out from more experienced, supposed professionals. Even if they make a couple of cock ups, I'd rather that than watch Distin, Jagielka and Barry's Three Stooges act any longer. I can't see these senior pros turning it around - we've been through that nightmare in the past month.

At the end of the day though, it's down to the professional footballers picked to start in our team to start acting like they're proud to play for us, and down to us too to help Martinez turn it around for the rest of this season.

I'd play 433 against the Hammers, assuming McCarthy's still out
Robles
Coleman Browning Stones Garbutt
Besic Barkley Baines
McGeady Kone / Lukaku Mirallas

Everton Forever

 

[Moomin]

Rumour on twitter that the other day at training Distin turned up late while Roberto was going through tactics in Finch Farm. Distin apologised to his team mates but said nothing to the coaching team. Worst of all though, he took his trackie top off and had a t-shirt saying " Team Moyes " on it.

Osman, Hibbert got up and stood on the tables singing " He's got red hair and we don't care " while Howard waved his crutches in the air shouting " That's phenomenal"

We need these bad eggs out of our club.

 

[Jxg]

But I couldnt care less about them mate.

But I get your point. Always darkest before dawn and all that.

Bit like a horse with blinkers then. At least you understand what I'm saying.

I think I'd rather have won the league twice and reached the cl final and then have a relegation fight this season than win nothing and still have a relegation fight this season, myself tbh.

Certainly, but we're not going to have a relegation fight this season, so that's a completely irrelevant fallacy.

 

[Ihaters]

David Moyes second season took us to 17th, look at how well he turned it around.. Finished 4th the next season

Could be Martinez does the same.

One bad season does not make a bad manager.

 

[Allezfan]

Certainly, but we're not going to have a relegation fight this season, so that's a completely irrelevant fallacy.

Neither will Dortmund, probably.

It's a bit 'at least we're not chelsea', innit.

 

[ijjysmith]

 

[roydo]

View attachment 5828

Christ. Where did that from from?

 

[Del]

View attachment 5828

????

 

[davek]

So what you are saying is that there is a group of players, would I be wrong in assuming that it is the likes of Howard, Distin, Jags, Pienaar anymore? Barry?, Baines? Coleman? who have lost a bit of faith in what Martinez is trying to do, and have decided to go through the motions and not bust a gut for the cause.

I dont think it's too difficult to see.

Players crying off injured; players being insubordinate in the media; players showing a lack of respect to the manager in their books; players going walkabout on the pitch giving a grisly impression of defending and not being arsed about it.

You'd have to be a bit daft not to see all this.

 

[davek]

At the end of the day though, it's down to the professional footballers picked to start in our team to start acting like they're proud to play for us, and down to us too to help Martinez turn it around for the rest of this season.

Everton Forever

Amen to that.

 

[ijjysmith]

Christ. Where did that from from?

????

Just the Echo scaremongering.

However, crisis will hit after the City game I predict.

Then the West Brom game will be huge. Lose and poo hits the fan.

#Oracula

 

[Jags..class]

We talk about bad apples but Martinez needs to release them asap, offer distin to clubs on a free at least

 

[toffee matt]

I don't like Steve Bruce at all but he does give me an impression of being a nasty [Poor language removed] who won't think twice about getting a player to one side and tearing shreds of them and telling them in no uncertain terms if you don't try harder you are out the club. Could you see Martinez doing that....I couldnt !!

Steve Bruce appears to be anything nasty.

Comes across as a dim idiot if anything