Ok fine, we'll go about it this way then.
With 'these two idiots' in the side as the experienced first choice two (just like last season in the majority I hasten to add) then is it their fault that when Martinez selects them to play a game they cant play it is their fault for not being that type of player (because he must see like we can and know it like we do) or is it his can to carry because it is his selection and his method of playing that has us repeatedly coming unstuck?
So far as 'last May' and 'new blood' 'Van Dijk' and whatever else, hindsight is a wonderful thing, no one could anticipate Stones being out like he has been and very importantly how much of setting a system that doesn't work for the only players at his disposal is responsible for wrecking a once good working midfield?