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"sixth, seventh or eighth the best Everton can do"

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He's always given me the impression that he has to present Everton as a club like Fulham or Sunderland (or some other also ran, never won a cup for generations football club ). The reality is we win trophies (it was merely seven years before he turned up - and five years before Billy Liar did - that we won silverware).

Moyes and The Liar have put in between them a shift of 13 barren years when the Everton trophy cabinet's remained unopened. Saying that's 'as good as Everton can do' is just covering their tracks.
 
the esk said:
When SAF plays down expectations it is referred to as reverse psychology,taking pressure of the players and club. When Moyes does something similar it's referred to as small time mentality, lack of ambition etc.

The man is speaking the truth, take of the royal blue specs for a moment and think about it, given our resources it's about as good as we can expect.

Whether or not that is acceptable to the majority of our fan base is irrelevant, it is a statement that reflects reality.
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Actually given our resources 10th place is about as good as we can expect.

But resources alone don't win football matches, price tags don't win football matches.

If we were finishing 10th people would be saying we can't compete with teams who spend more than us and thats where we should be and it could be worse.

But the guy has proven that he has the ability to make a team far better than "where we should be". Psychology is a huge part of sport and with an arrogant winning mentality we would be higher than we are, of that i've no doubt. Doesn't mean we'd be winning the league but we'd be higher up in ther table and more likely to have won something that when we're just happy to be playing with the big boys and blame money everytime we lose.
 
3 points off 4th at the end of December with a transfer window in January to kick on.

Since then we've played 7, won 2 (West Brom, Newcastle) , lost 2 (United, Norwich), drawn 3 (Southampton, Swansea, Villa).

We're now 6 points from it, possibly 9 if Spurs win against West Ham.

Make you're own mind up. We've either missed an opportunity or were just a "top 6,7 side"
 
Tubey said:
Except it's not true is it? We're still comfortably one of the top ten clubs in Britain.

It's only true in the minds of those who think football was invented by Sky in 1992, and in the mind of a Scottish manager who hasn't won anything to speak of.
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How are you measuring "big" Tubes? Honestly keen to see how you measure our gait in a league of billionaires?


Not arguing with you, just saying BK & DM and Neville often admit to this obvious white elephant, honestly can't say they are lowering expectations when as Esk says its a fact.
 

Plus a lot of personal perspective here, people suggesting between 4th and 10th is " as good as Everton can get", the often overused phrase of " resources ", is key.


Being boss as getting players on the cheap doesn't excuse Moyes from criticism.
 
It's not the best though is it, it's about what you'd expect. The best we could do is scrape 4th or win a trophy, which is what he's talking about aiming at as it'd be doing a bit better.

There's no way he actually believes every season has gone as well as it possibly could have. It's another one of these little things he comes out with from time to time just for something to say.
 
Bryan said:
How are you measuring "big" Tubes? Honestly keen to see how you measure our gait in a league of billionaires?


Not arguing with you, just saying BK & DM and Neville often admit to this obvious white elephant, honestly can't say they are lowering expectations when as Esk says its a fact.
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I'd say being one of the top 10 clubs in Britain qualifies you as a big club. We're not Shrewsbury or the MK Dons are we?

Let's put it this way, I don't think we're "small" enough to allow a manager who has won nothing to boost his own credentials by making out his own shortcomings are the result of Everton doing the "best they can" by finishing 8th.

What Moyes has said isn't true at all. It's the net result of the remarkable lowering of expectations under his management - the club has done well, whilst the Moyes myth has expanded.

Here's what does my head in - when Everton do well, it's because of Moyes. When Everton do badly, it's because of Kenwright.

We normally start the season badly and end strongly, and people excuse it because of the squad etc., not because of Moyes. This season, we've started strongly and we're ending badly, yet people once again point at the squad and refuse to blame Moyes.

We've had seasons were we've played exactly the same amount of games as now with the same size squad and kicked on after Christmas, so I'm not buying this "the squad are knackered" nonsense. We went out early in the League Cup and have had one game a week on average.

So why is Moyes not blamed for not having the ability to get the job done over a season? Why is it that the start of the season was great because of Moyes, but what's happening now is someone elses fault.

Always someone elses fault, that's the common theme with him. If the best Everton can do is 8th, it's not because the club is too limited to do better (name seven better clubs?), it's because he isn't good enough at his job.
 

Azzurri said:
Who's bigger?

Arsenal
United
Kopites
Chelsea
City

The last two solely because of money.
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Arsenal - Regular CL football, can attract top players
United - Do I need to explain why?
Kopites - Can attract top players, pay top wages and have a worlwide fanbase 2nd to only United
Chelsea - Moneys
City - Moneys
Spurs - CL hopefuls, can attract top players and pay top wages
Everton - Plucky little Everton, 18 Years without a trophy, sometimes makes the Europa, cant buy free players, cant attract anybody of any note, EVER, sells its best players every Summer
 
MoutsGoat said:
Arsenal - Regular CL football, can attract top players
United - Do I need to explain why?
Kopites - Can attract top players, pay top wages and have a worlwide fanbase 2nd to only United
Chelsea - Moneys
City - Moneys
Spurs - CL hopefuls, can attract top players and pay top wages
Everton - Plucky little Everton, 18 Years without a trophy, sometimes makes the Europa, cant buy free players, cant attract anybody of any note, EVER, sells its best players every Summer
Click to expand...

What top players do the RS attract lad?
 
deathbyropeandglass said:
Actually given our resources 10th place is about as good as we can expect.

But resources alone don't win football matches, price tags don't win football matches.

If we were finishing 10th people would be saying we can't compete with teams who spend more than us and thats where we should be and it could be worse.

But the guy has proven that he has the ability to make a team far better than "where we should be". Psychology is a huge part of sport and with an arrogant winning mentality we would be higher than we are, of that i've no doubt. Doesn't mean we'd be winning the league but we'd be higher up in ther table and more likely to have won something that when we're just happy to be playing with the big boys and blame money everytime we lose.
Click to expand...

I think we are in agreement - both the players and the manager have taken us to a level beyond realistic expectations. But because the players (generally) and the manager specifically are just short of being absolutely top class, including mentality we are where we are.

Just as Kenwright can't pull money out of a hat, Moyes cannot pull out the ultimate winning psychology because he does not possess it.
 
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