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Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

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They aren't?

Am sure every chief exec since 1994 have commented on redeveloping Goodison. Its definitely an option thats been explored, why wouldn't it have?

No, they've committed the club to excusivity deal with their "partners" on the Kirkby proposal. Although, I believe when the "no Plan B" question was raised (at an AGM?) Kenwright muttered something about Goodison Park - does that mean it's do-able but not the Board's prefered option at that time? I don't know.
 
No, they've committed the club to excusivity deal with their "partners" on the Kirkby proposal. Although, I believe when the "no Plan B" question was raised (at an AGM?) Kenwright muttered something about Goodison Park - does that mean it's do-able but not the Board's prefered option at that time? I don't know.

Again, the Kirkby debate has been running long before the latest Kirkby proposal. Latest as there was one prior this (Golf course). The club have commented on redeveloping Goodison many a times.

The "Plan B/Kenwright" statement you are referring to, he said go back to Goodison and try again - Which we have been doing for 10+ years.
 
:huh:

"I dont think we would get the money for the likes of stadium sponsorship rights if we didn't actually build it."

Believe me, we dont have £70m/£100m sat aside just waiting for Kirkby which we could be easily spend on Goodison if we wanted...

Well we don't have the money for either Kirkby or GP, which is the point you seem to be missing. If you're not, then it seems the whole point of the discussion is pointless. We can't afford either at this point. Unless, of course, you assume that once Kirkby is given the go ahead, we'll get our very own investor that will fund the move via various shenanigans?
 
It does seem to me, GOT, that you're going down the route of trying to argue that staying at Goodison Park, whether redeveloped or not, or trying to find an alternative location to Kirkby are poor options, in your opinion : therefore, Kirkby must be a good option. But it doesn't work that way. Kirkby is a very poor option, but I can't guarantee you there is a better scheme to hand with a secret pot of funding just awaiting the opportunity to be Everton's Plan B or whatever. However, I don't believe that Kirkby falling through would mean the end of any hope that Everton could ever redevelop/rebuild/relocate at some point in the future. Just because we supporters can not specify what particular alternatives may be possible in the future, although there have been some interesting suggestions over recent years, doesn't mean there will be none at all.
 
Well we don't have the money for either Kirkby or GP, which is the point you seem to be missing. If you're not, then it seems the whole point of the discussion is pointless. We can't afford either at this point. Unless, of course, you assume that once Kirkby is given the go ahead, we'll get our very own investor that will fund the move via various shenanigans?

Woah. You suggested redeveloping Goodison with £100m, saying it could be paid for out the Kirkby pot. Clearly, thats not possible as there is no Kirkby pot because the Kirkby funding is relient on the stadium actually being built, through stadium sponsorship etc.

Well yes, fingers crossed. Either way, spending £100m on GP or Kirkby presents the same challenge.

I'm sure £100m would get us up to standard. We don't need another Emirates, just a ground that is fit for purpose. If we cement our place in the top 4, we can give further thought to developing the ground beyond that.

Well again, fingers crossed we can find someone who will pay £100m just to get Goodison to an 'acceptable' standard.

I suspect it would come from the same "fund" that is funding Kirkby.

It does seem to me, GOT, that you're going down the route of trying to argue that staying at Goodison Park, whether redeveloped or not, or trying to find an alternative location to Kirkby are poor options

Isn't that the only route?

, in your opinion : therefore, Kirkby must be a good option. But it doesn't work that way. Kirkby is a very poor option

Only option/better option.

,but I can't guarantee you there is a better scheme to hand with a secret pot of funding just awaiting the opportunity to be Everton's Plan B or whatever.

Guarantee theres a better scheme? Secret pot of funding?....:huh:

However, I don't believe that Kirkby falling through would mean the end of any hope that Everton could ever redevelop/rebuild/relocate at some point in the future.

Of course not.

Just because we supporters can not specify what particular alternatives may be possible in the future, although there have been some interesting suggestions over recent years, doesn't mean there will be none at all.

Thing is though Dennis, alternatives have been explored since at least 1994. Unless someone discovers land in Liverpool that has went unnoticed and we get another commercial backer/rich owner, we're going to struggle, as we have for some time.

Just how much longer can we remain at Goodison? :unsure:
 

The fund that relies on the Kirkby stadium?

I dont think we would get the money for the likes of stadium sponsorship rights if we didn't actually build it.

Build it and you're not guaranteed either. Elstone conceded the club has scrapped it's plans to find a stadium naming rights sponsor. They were talking up the prospect two years ago of £30M from this source at one stage. There's a recession on and companies are looking closely at this sort of budgeting. No wonder the club were reluctant to outline to the watching world how they were going to stump up £78M without naming right's cash secured or the sale of Goodison Park. Commercially sensitive!
 
Well its just that you seem happy to call people Flat Earthers when you admit you've no direct knowledge of the area.

Now you're right that Walton isn't exactly the West End. But it's central to the core support and surrounding it there are many facilities that can be utilised by the fans.

Take a look at a map of the area. Everything you see on it from Kirkby to the west and south is mixed Everton/Liverpool. Everything to the north and east is no-man's land as far as Everton is concerned. There are Evertonians there, but they're outnumbered significantly by Man United and Liverpool supporters.

I suppose the nearest I can think of is this would be like Tottenham moving to Watford, West Ham moving to Thamesmead (that's the closet I can think of as an example actually), Chelsea popping down to Balham, Arsenal upping sticks to Friern Barnet. All those areas have supporters of each club, but they're all wrong for those clubs.

You use the term Flat Earthers like people are so stupid that they prefer to ignore all evidence that their theory is wrong. But that's not the case with the anti-Kirkby people at all. There is compelling evidence to suggest that a move to Kirkby is wrong for Everton, the same as it would be for Liverpool. Fair enough that you're a guy that thinks progress concerning Everton is measured by the first change offered. But I think you should leave the Flat earth references to areas that they deserve to be applied. Just like I wouldn't call a pro-Kirby person a Philistine, or a gullible type, you shouldn't assume that an anti-Kirkby person is a Flat Earther, bent on ignoring all compelling reasons as to why his theory of the universe is hideously wrong.

I take your point. But When I say Flat Earth Society, I am specifically referring to KEIOC and not to those against Kirkby per sey. I should make that clear in future posts.

While I may not appreciate them, I can see some of the points as to why people are against Kirby. The problem for me is that they have been poorly articulated. For example, arguing that "a move to Kirkby, means no more big time" deserves a fuller explanation. To use an example, we turn on a light, we know that in simple terms electricity moves in a certain direction to give light to the lightbulb, its called cause and effect.

It would be really good if someone could articulate cause and effect such as " a move to Kirkby = x = w = z". Unless someone can articulate that I aint buying into the hate. My criticism of the KEIOC article was that on reviewing the article the arguments could be applied to any stadia that KEIOC don't approve (whether in the city of liverpool or not) and was not a specific anti-kirkby article, except in relation to transport. I was totally unmoved by it.

People talk about "other options" as if they're falling off a plate. Well OK, I first of all except that Everton's research into other options has probably not been as efficient as it could be, but after reviewing 35 sites within the city of liverpool, can someone suggest what more can be done?

We could of course stay at GP and wait until the rs spaceship dwarfs us. Perhaps then people MIGHT realise that moving or re-development (if we have the money), is really the only option. Or we could continue to not generate enough match day income in a lovely but old stadia with its obstructed views, lovely tent (oh, sorry Marquee) and poor match facilities, poring good money after bad in a stadia which will only improve if knocked down and rebuilt.

I think I am trying to argue for realism, not romatic idealism. That went out the window the day football was re-invented by Sky.
 
GOT, you're still coming back to "It's got to be Kirkby - it's the best idea the current Board can come up with". It's not much of a strategy, imho. If moving to Kirkby is the right thing to do there should be a whole load of positive benefits & not a whole load of negatives. The case for Kirkby shouldn't be the case against everything else.
 
GOT, you're still coming back to "It's got to be Kirkby - it's the best idea the current Board can come up with". It's not much of a strategy, imho. If moving to Kirkby is the right thing to do there should be a whole load of positive benefits & not a whole load of negatives. The case for Kirkby shouldn't be the case against everything else.

Am lost sorry Dennis.

When attempting to come to a decision, you usually evaluate the other options?
 

Or we could continue to not generate enough match day income in a lovely but old stadia with its obstructed views, lovely tent (oh, sorry Marquee) and poor match facilities, poring good money after bad in a stadia which will only improve if knocked down and rebuilt.

About as confused as you can get.

Elstone has already told you that to make money the stadium would have to hit 47,000 avergae seasonal attendances and now there's a report doing the rounds that it'll be capped at substantially below that number...and even if it was achieved it'd only generate circa £6M pa more than GP. There's no non-sporting events possible to generate cash, so that means corporate hospitality will have to really be right on it's game. Unfortunately, I think you have to have a successful team to attract that sort of revenue. As for 'pouring good money after bad' - the club have spent in the region of £12m on the friggin' place since about 1990. :lol:
 
I take your point. But When I say Flat Earth Society, I am specifically referring to KEIOC and not to those against Kirkby per sey. I should make that clear in future posts.

While I may not appreciate them, I can see some of the points as to why people are against Kirby. The problem for me is that they have been poorly articulated. For example, arguing that "a move to Kirkby, means no more big time" deserves a fuller explanation. To use an example, we turn on a light, we know that in simple terms electricity moves in a certain direction to give light to the lightbulb, its called cause and effect.

It would be really good if someone could articulate cause and effect such as " a move to Kirkby = x = w = z". Unless someone can articulate that I aint buying into the hate. My criticism of the KEIOC article was that on reviewing the article the arguments could be applied to any stadia that KEIOC don't approve (whether in the city of liverpool or not) and was not a specific anti-kirkby article, except in relation to transport. I was totally unmoved by it.

People talk about "other options" as if they're falling off a plate. Well OK, I first of all except that Everton's research into other options has probably not been as efficient as it could be, but after reviewing 35 sites within the city of liverpool, can someone suggest what more can be done?

We could of course stay at GP and wait until the rs spaceship dwarfs us. Perhaps then people MIGHT realise that moving or re-development (if we have the money), is really the only option. Or we could continue to not generate enough match day income in a lovely but old stadia with its obstructed views, lovely tent (oh, sorry Marquee) and poor match facilities, poring good money after bad in a stadia which will only improve if knocked down and rebuilt.

I think I am trying to argue for realism, not romatic idealism. That went out the window the day football was re-invented by Sky.


BT, you say you're arguing for realism & that you also believe the Everton Board examined 35 possible sites for a new stadium :lol:
 
Am lost sorry Dennis.

When attempting to come to a decision, you usually evaluate the other options?

What other options? The board offered some a vote on "Kirkby" or "Not Kirkby". There were no alternatives presented so we have no options to compare. The alternatives you wish to dismiss are just suggestions from supporters. Unless the Board decide to explore any alternative, known or as yet unknown, & present it as another option we have nothing legitimate to evaluate other than Kirkby. So, as the Board offered in the vote, it's a simple yes or no to Kirkby. Hence my comment that the case in favour of Kirkby should consist of a lot more positives about the proposal rather than a lot of negatives about possible alternatives. It seems clear to me that the Kirkby proposal isn't a very good option for the club, concerns about possible alternatives when we don't yet know what they are doesn't make Kirkby any more attractive.
 

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