Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[stanleypark]

I agree with the issue of transport, but I think wherever we go to we will have these issues, they need to be adressed by the club and Knowsley Council, to improve the Train links and dual carrageway access to cherryfield drive.

However, from the plans that are available on the official website it is clear to me that the new stadium will have large hospitality area within the stadium itself and if you read through the details of the public enquiry, the adjoining retail development will also feature pubs, bars and resturants.

Also the design of the stadium is such that it can easily be expanded by adding extra seating into the corners of the stadium and the corporate hospitality can also be expanded in the south stand as on the drawings it shows an area for "future fit out" (link below)

http://www.evertonfc.com/assets/_files/documents/nov_08/efc__1227007866_SecondFloorRevisedsecond.pdf

The Boxes in the North (End) Stand are future fit out. So we're sacrificing atmosphere in the hope that one day we may get a surplus of corporate clients! I think that's an insult to the many Everton fans who have tried to get the singing going over the years and goes to show how much they care about the more regular fans.

South Stand are half away fans boxes and half offices. So you won't get home support there. Complete lack of thought.

Corners can be filed in but what then? Knock down the each stand and rebuild it! So Everton think that the Man U model of expansion of 30,000 seats added effortlessly via extra tiers in 15 years was not a good idea!! No doubt Everton will be too deluded and arrogant to believe that this stadium is anything but great

 

[stanleypark]

it's all been covered in the public inquiry thingy, none of the points highlighted in the post you quote will apply.

At the moment no it doesn't apply, the questions are why not, and what can be done so that they do apply

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

The Boxes in the North (End) Stand are future fit out. So we're sacrificing atmosphere in the hope that one day we may get a surplus of corporate clients! I think that's an insult to the many Everton fans who have tried to get the singing going over the years and goes to show how much they care about the more regular fans.

South Stand are half away fans boxes and half offices. So you won't get home support there. Complete lack of thought.

Corners can be filed in but what then? Knock down the each stand and rebuild it! So Everton think that the Man U model of expansion of 30,000 seats added effortlessly via extra tiers in 15 years was not a good idea!! No doubt Everton will be too deluded and arrogant to believe that this stadium is anything but great

Good points

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

At the moment no it doesn't apply, the questions are why not, and what can be done so that they do apply

Well, as far as I'm aware, the capacity limits will have been agreed with the local authority as part of the planning process & even then there are further restrictions subject to everton delivering what little has been submitted by way of a transprt plan. One might argue that not planning for the potential need for much bigger crowds in the future shows a willingness on the part of the board to put a ceiling on the clubs ambitions. The sort of transport arrangements needed are not going to happen as the expense isn't justified by the overall useage - we may have to wait for Kirkby to grow into a much bigger town. The lack of other uses for the stadium such as concerts, etc is another local authority restriction - although I'm not sure who would be putting on a concerts in somewhat inaccessible Kirkby instead of Liverpool or Manchester.

 

[stanleypark]

Well, as far as I'm aware, the capacity limits will have been agreed with the local authority as part of the planning process & even then there are further restrictions subject to everton delivering what little has been submitted by way of a transprt plan. One might argue that not planning for the potential need for much bigger crowds in the future shows a willingness on the part of the board to put a ceiling on the clubs ambitions. The sort of transport arrangements needed are not going to happen as the expense isn't justified by the overall useage - we may have to wait for Kirkby to grow into a much bigger town. The lack of other uses for the stadium such as concerts, etc is another local authority restriction - although I'm not sure who would be putting on a concerts in somewhat inaccessible Kirkby instead of Liverpool or Manchester.

Exactly as I see it.
I've gone past arguing whether Kirkby is right or wrong, it's out of our hands so it's a futile argument.

But there are many issues that concern our, that fans need to come together and resolve, and this is one of them.

Therefore, your first point about capacity limits already agreed, that's fine. 50,000 is fine for starters, an extra 10,000 negates the selling point of Kirkby as in 4 individual stands. Therefore an option should be, like Man U, to be able to add extra tiers to each stand. However, I am happy to rtetain the option of filling in corners.

Additional sides tiers would be upto 8500 max and ends about 5500.

So basicly Everton will allow for eventual additions to be able to reach the same size as anyone in Eurpoe, all in staged increases as and when ready.

Now current agreements are 50,000 - 60,000. We are still within that even by doing the above. You see the largest expansion is by 8500, the argument is that they are options for expansion. We only want to reach upto 60,000 but haven't decided how to expand yet, so we have left our options open!

That way we get the current build for large expansion! So 15 years time if we want to go above 60,000 its a fresh application a new argument!

The transport issue should be an ongoing battle to rectify, we may have to wait for Kirkby to grow, but we may be 25 years off expanding over 60,000, point is Everton we should sort out what we can now.

Everton are apathetic over the future at Kirkby, we've got to live with it, so we need to get changes done to it now.

 

[Keamos]

Maybe we could adopt this approach and have the 5,000 most expensive seats in the world.....

Palmer wants to limit crowds - A-League - Fox Sports

The Courier-Mail has reported Palmer wants to cap the attendance at 5000.

This would ensure United do not have to pay a State Government levy of $3.15 per ticket, which covers the cost of train and bus rides to matches.

The levy applies only when crowds exceed 5000 because a traffic management plan is then required.

 

[McBain]

I going to wait until the movie about this thread comes out.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Exactly as I see it.
I've gone past arguing whether Kirkby is right or wrong, it's out of our hands so it's a futile argument.

But there are many issues that concern our, that fans need to come together and resolve, and this is one of them.

Therefore, your first point about capacity limits already agreed, that's fine. 50,000 is fine for starters, an extra 10,000 negates the selling point of Kirkby as in 4 individual stands. Therefore an option should be, like Man U, to be able to add extra tiers to each stand. However, I am happy to rtetain the option of filling in corners.

Additional sides tiers would be upto 8500 max and ends about 5500.

So basicly Everton will allow for eventual additions to be able to reach the same size as anyone in Eurpoe, all in staged increases as and when ready.

Now current agreements are 50,000 - 60,000. We are still within that even by doing the above. You see the largest expansion is by 8500, the argument is that they are options for expansion. We only want to reach upto 60,000 but haven't decided how to expand yet, so we have left our options open!

That way we get the current build for large expansion! So 15 years time if we want to go above 60,000 its a fresh application a new argument!

The transport issue should be an ongoing battle to rectify, we may have to wait for Kirkby to grow, but we may be 25 years off expanding over 60,000, point is Everton we should sort out what we can now.

Everton are apathetic over the future at Kirkby, we've got to live with it, so we need to get changes done to it now.

I have to admit I'm not optimistic about the well-being of the club if we move to Kirkby. Perhaps it's a tad pessimistic but I forsee an intial surge in interest fairly quickly quashed by the negative aspects of "the Kirkby experience". This would lead those who don't hold season tickets to start to cherry-pick games, & those with season tickets may well not bother renewing but also start to cherry-pick which matches they consider worth the effort & inconvenience. The effect, of course, will be to drive down average attendances. The resultant loss of income will mean there will be less, if any funding available for Moyes to develop the squad. It may even be that the club struggle to service the additional debts taken on to fund the new stadium.

 

[stanleypark]

I have to admit I'm not optimistic about the well-being of the club if we move to Kirkby. Perhaps it's a tad pessimistic but I forsee an intial surge in interest fairly quickly quashed by the negative aspects of "the Kirkby experience". This would lead those who don't hold season tickets to start to cherry-pick games, & those with season tickets may well not bother renewing but also start to cherry-pick which matches they consider worth the effort & inconvenience. The effect, of course, will be to drive down average attendances. The resultant loss of income will mean there will be less, if any funding available for Moyes to develop the squad. It may even be that the club struggle to service the additional debts taken on to fund the new stadium.

I fear the same. However, I believe that the club should always strive to be the best. They may not succeed, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't continually try to be the best. It's the lack of effort that always annoys us. If Kirkby happens, what are we going to do as fans? Just sit there and feel sorry for ourselves, or are we going to continue tio put pressure on the board to improve things like transport? There are certain stadium aspects that have to be changed beforte its built.

Perfect example, the Park End getting built in 95. We were getting 20,000 averages when it was planned, the majority of people were saying 40,000 was more than big enough. There was an outspoken number of us who wanted it larger. That pessimism has cost us so dearly. Yet we're repeating the same mistake!

The point of building for expansion, is that it is done in stages. We may never get to go beyond 50,000. But so what. What have we lost. The extra cost of building for expansion. Considering that building for expansion was done even before the war, I'd be surprised if it was unaffordable.

 

[PARKENDPIE]

I fear the same. However, I believe that the club should always strive to be the best. They may not succeed, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't continually try to be the best. It's the lack of effort that always annoys us. If Kirkby happens, what are we going to do as fans? Just sit there and feel sorry for ourselves, or are we going to continue tio put pressure on the board to improve things like transport? There are certain stadium aspects that have to be changed beforte its built.

Perfect example, the Park End getting built in 95. We were getting 20,000 averages when it was planned, the majority of people were saying 40,000 was more than big enough. There was an outspoken number of us who wanted it larger. That pessimism has cost us so dearly. Yet we're repeating the same mistake!

The point of building for expansion, is that it is done in stages. We may never get to go beyond 50,000. But so what. What have we lost. The extra cost of building for expansion. Considering that building for expansion was done even before the war, I'd be surprised if it was unaffordable.

asrenal have done the best thing they can up thier cap by 10,000 just by putting normal plastic seats in place of the padded wide seats they have now ,itll cost next to nothing in the future

 

[stanleypark]

asrenal have done the best thing they can up thier cap by 10,000 just by putting normal plastic seats in place of the padded wide seats they have now ,itll cost next to nothing in the future

Didn't know they were planning to do that. It goes to show that despite increasing their capacity by 20,000 they have still underestimated. I feel that Everton are underestimating our potential too.

The width of the padded seats in the Emirates are 660mm, the ones in Kirkby are 460mm. So we won't be able to do that. However, the legroom at Kirkby goes up to a whopping 840mm (St End 660mm, Park End 700mm), so everyone will be spread out and further from the action. Coupled with the upper tiers being maximum steepness, then we are talking about a stadium that will lack intimacy.

If Everton cut this excess down then it will cut costs and improve atmosphere. It will also be a step toward being a stadium that could hold over 60,000 by simply adding an extra tier. So we will have the potential to easily overtake our rivals for stadium size.

The Everton design lacks thought and ambition though. I see no reason why they can't change it

 

[davek]

Keep Everton In Our City - Everton need to heed UEFA financial plans

If that goes through massive gate receipts are going to be crucial. This is something alluded to, in fact, by Elstone in a recent interview...that a cold wind is blowing toward football in terms of regulation of the "industry" and a new facility at least gives a basis to remain competitive. Of course, there's remaining competitive and being successful and winning things. Swapping a 40,000 capacity stadium for one pegged at 40,000+ doesn't make sense if you have the latter in mind.

 

[chicoazul]

Keep Everton In Our City - Everton need to heed UEFA financial plans If that goes through massive gate receipts are going to be crucial. This is something alluded to, in fact, by Elstone in a recent interview...that a cold wind is blowing toward football in terms of regulation of the "industry" and a new facility at least gives a basis to remain competitive. Of course, there's remaining competitive and being successful and winning things. Swapping a 40,000 capacity stadium for one pegged at 40,000+ doesn't make sense if you have the latter in mind.

Posted via Mobile Device
Would you consider a shared stadiumoid Mr K?

 

[Clarky66]

I know you didn't ask me, but if it comes down to a choice between a mediocre stadium in Kirkby, or a 60,000 shared stadium in Stanley park - I'd choose the latter in a flash.

 

[chicoazul]

I know you didn't ask me, but if it comes down to a choice between a mediocre stadium in Kirkby, or a 60,000 shared stadium in Stanley park - I'd choose the latter in a flash.

Posted via Mobile Device
Yeah, me too mate.