Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[davek]

21% behind the eventual Labour winner, hardly something to celebrate and i doubt the council are that worried about it neither. Onwards to kirkby

In the three wards immediately effected by the stadium plan Labour (that's the Party that gets no opposition candidates or massive majorities in Kirkby) polled 1,989 votes out of a possible 4,120. Do you think that's an affirmative response from the people of that area to Labour/Tesco's proposals?

I dont. I think it's the reverse. And despite what the Labour Party said on the night, they will be looking at those figures closely before they refer this plan to the Sec of State.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Are you still sticking to the supposed "neutral", or whatever it was you claimed you were , standpoint Dennis? Onlyh asking because it's quite clear your completely against the move.

i was initially quite enthused at the prospect of a new stadium in kirkby, but doubts set in after some of the very little information supplied didn't quite stack up. i've always remained open to being convinced that it's still the right thing for everton to do, however, as the project has "progressed" it's become increasingly clear that this is a huge gamble in the hope of achieving a very small return. so i am now against the move to kirkby, but not unwilling to be shown the error of my ways - i haven't come across much information that indicates this would be a good move, but maybe it's out there somewhere.

by the way i never claimed to be "neutral", i am "pro-"everton - kirkby is just an option for our club to consider, i'm just a concerned evertonian who hopes the board get it right.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

In the three wards immediately effected by the stadium plan Labour (that's the Party that gets no opposition candidates or massive majorities in Kirkby) polled 1,989 votes out of a possible 4,120. Do you think that's an affirmative response from the people of that area to Labour/Tesco's proposals?

I dont. I think it's the reverse. And despite what the Labour Party said on the night, they will be looking at those figures closely before they refer this plan to the Sec of State.

i noticed this information posted by somebody on bk, it seems pertinent to your post :

Labour got 1,985 in the three wards contested by 1st 4 Kirkby, who got 1,543.
That is a difference of 442.
442!
Unbelievable acheivement.
If we add on the other opposin votes, 1,034, this gives us a total of 2,577 against labour.
A difference of 592.
592!
This clearly indicates that more people are against this development than are for.

as somebody else mentioned, when you consider the timescale & the amateurs versus professionals type scenario, it's an incredible achievement.

 

[davek]

i noticed this information posted by somebody on bk, it seems pertinent to your post :



as somebody else mentioned, when you consider the timescale & the amateurs versus professionals type scenario, it's an incredible achievement.

It is an 'unbelievable achievement' too. On a level playing field of resources and time - and without Labour having the Tesco giant on their team - that residents group could have toppled Labour, no question. As has been said elsewhere, it's the fact that decades of ingrained Labour voting was just ditched which demonstrates the strength of feeling in Kirkby against this plan.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

i'm not a local, so the concern i have is that it seems to be the stadium part of the development that people are opposed to. the idea of attending matches at a new stadium plonked down in an area where it's not welcome isn't exactly appealing.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

But the fact is, the majority of people in Kirkby want the ground proposal to go ahead......

Thats fact, whether KEIOC want to believe it or not is a completely different matter.

You'll find people who dont want the ground in Kirkby will be a lot more active in voting than the people who are borderline or those who do want the ground in Kirkby.

 

[MaccaBill]

More likely the majority of people in Kirkby want redevelopment (because 'all the shops round here are the same' apparently!!! Good point, well made - so have some other shops that differ by virtue of being the same as those everywhere else - genius:blink: Or perhaps Tesco propose a 'bespoke' hyper market for Kirkby?) and the stadium is presently such an integral part of the current redevelopment scheme that they would be concerned to lose all proposals should they dispute the presence of the stadium.

 

[Desaparecido]

That's FPTP for ya.

 

[davek]

But the fact is, the majority of people in Kirkby want the ground proposal to go ahead......


.

Tesco's (or some other supermarket) yes. Where is your evidence to support the view people in Kirkby want a stadium there?

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

But the fact is, the majority of people in Kirkby want the ground proposal to go ahead......

Thats fact, whether KEIOC want to believe it or not is a completely different matter.

You'll find people who dont want the ground in Kirkby will be a lot more active in voting than the people who are borderline or those who do want the ground in Kirkby.

do they? as i said, i'm not a local & i've more interest in everton than kirkby, tbh, but what i've seen from afar indicates plenty of support for appropriate redevelopment, but quite a bit of concern about a football stadium. i wouldn't have any idea whether the majority are for it all, against it all, or just against the stadium as i haven't seen anything that clearly shows this information.
i also couldn't really comment as regards the keioc perspective as i've nothing to do with them.

 

[MoyesBlueWhiteArmy]

i noticed this information posted by somebody on bk, it seems pertinent to your post :



as somebody else mentioned, when you consider the timescale & the amateurs versus professionals type scenario, it's an incredible achievement.

You can always rely on Bk No voters to put some great spin on it. They were saying the other day 14k would easy win

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

You can always rely on Bk No voters to put some great spin on it. They were saying the other day 14k would easy win

not sure about the "spin" - i think the point was made in response to somebody trying to claim the local elections could be seen as a referendum on the proposed development. the poster concerned was firstly commending the independant candidates on their performance & secondly pointing out that if you were viewing the election as a referendum then when you tot up the votes for those parties that were pro- & anti- the stadium more people voted for the anti- side. but the whole argument is silly as people vote for different parties for different reasons, so it doesn't make any sense to try & "spin" the local elections into a referendum on a single issue.

 

[davek]

the whole argument is silly as people vvote for different parties for sifferent reasons, so it doesn't make any sense to try & "spin" the local elections into a referendum on a single issue.

Exactly right. And a point which underlines the nature and calibre of the decision makers in Knowsley. Labour councillors, who've refused to countenance a referendum on the issue of the stadium, now conveniently claim a local election (as you say, fought on different issues as far as Labour were concerned) as a 'referendum' when they just got their noses over the finishing line.

People like that should not be in any position to make decisions that will have far reaching consequences on the lives of tens of thousands of other people. They're simply not up to the job.

 

[Dylan]

People like that should not be in any position to make decisions that will have far reaching consequences on the lives of tens of thousands of other people. They're simply not up to the job.

You could say that about a lot of politicians, but unless somebody else really steps up for the job you aren't going to have a choice. Remember, it is a government for the people chosen by the people.

If the voters have been swayed by a single issue like a retail park development, then they are being short-sighted and need to look at the bigger picture. Now I am not local, just like Dennis, but I can appreciate that sometimes even the unpopular people in power actually are doing what they believe to be in the best interests of the people they represent.

Imagine if this new party got in, they wouldn't have a single clue of what to do or how a borough really works beyond their special interests.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

You could say that about a lot of politicians, but unless somebody else really steps up for the job you aren't going to have a choice. Remember, it is a government for the people chosen by the people.

If the voters have been swayed by a single issue like a retail park development, then they are being short-sighted and need to look at the bigger picture. Now I am not local, just like Dennis, but I can appreciate that sometimes even the unpopular people in power actually are doing what they believe to be in the best interests of the people they represent.

Imagine if this new party got in, they wouldn't have a single clue of what to do or how a borough really works beyond their special interests.[/quote]

a reasonable point, dylan, although based on assumptions as to the experuence, knowledge & ability of those in question & it should not be forgotten that even if 1st 4 kirkby had been 100% successful they would only have 3 councillors, so they aren't going to be running the council, just yet.