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mkrudden said:
But who knows if this chance will present itself again this season? What if we are unlucky g!ts and draw a premier league team in the FA Cup. The longer we went on without giving the squad players a chance the wore the repercussions would be.

And i dont think RM thinks like that. I think he probably thought the players would take their chance better than they did.

And remember, first half we were boss. Had Deulololololfeu got his head up we got have been 4-0 up and therefore we wouldnt be having this debate
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Aye, but he didn't so we are.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You see a chance for getting players match fit, I see a weakened side losing a winnable game in a winnable competition for the third time in four years.
 
Personally don't feel it was down to selection. I don't think Roberto can take the blame for Coleman missing an open goal, or Robles being nutmegged or Delofoof playing like he's on FIFA.
 
Phenom said:
Personally don't feel it was down to selection. I don't think Roberto can take the blame for Coleman missing an open goal, or Robles being nutmegged or Delofoof playing like he's on FIFA.
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I think he could have done better with his subs.

Bringing on Jagielka and Barry when we went down to 2-1 while Mirallas and Barkley were on the bench I thought was odd.
 

bluejock said:
Aye, but he didn't so we are.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You see a chance for getting players match fit, I see a weakened side losing a winnable game in a winnable competition for the third time in four years.
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It's as if you are saying we would have been guaranteed a win with a different team selection...there is certainly no way of knowing that. I submit Deulofeu made us look far more dangerous than we have this season going forward...save maybe the second half at West Ham.

Second guessing the team selection is so bloody easy. Had we gone out with an unchanged side, many on here would have criticized Bobby for having a small club mentality...that of say a Wigan manager. You know this would have been the case. Had that side gone out and laid an egg, Bobby would have been criticized for his tactics. I guess it's a no win situation for the manager when we lose games we shoulda, coulda, woulda won though.

I'm standing by my initial reaction...there was nothing wrong with the team that was selected. It was plenty well good enough to win that game...on another day it would have.
 
ilikecheese said:
It's as if you are saying we would have been guaranteed a win with a different team selection...there is certainly no way of knowing that. I submit Deulofeu made us look far more dangerous than we have this season going forward...save maybe the second half at West Ham.

Second guessing the team selection is so bloody easy. Had we gone out with an unchanged side, many on here would have criticized Bobby for having a small club mentality...that of say a Wigan manager. You know this would have been the case. Had that side gone out and laid an egg, Bobby would have been criticized for his tactics. I guess it's a no win situation for the manager when we lose games we shoulda, coulda, woulda won though.

I'm standing by my initial reaction...there was nothing wrong with the team that was selected. It was plenty well good enough to win that game...on another day it would have.
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Possibly, people say all sorts of stuff but I don't really see your point.

I wouldn't have said that, so I don't see why my criticism should be discounted because if he had done soemthing different somebody else might have not liked that either.

Take for instance you're asked to kill my sister by someone who didn't like her. You kill her I get upset, you don't kill her the other bloke gets upset so you might think "I just can't win here. People will moan whatever I do."

But those two opinions aren't of the same value. You can't just dismiss it as a no win situation. One of those criticisms is valid and one isn't.
 
bluejock said:
And why exactly were we resting players a full six days before a home game against Newcastle?

If you want to rotate players or get them game time, you make two or three changes then bring some more on as subs if possible. What was it, eight changes last night?
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100% agree, as has been said the rotation last night was ludicrous simple as. The top teams that rotate for this competition is understandable because they currently involved in a lenghty European campange..

WE ARE NOT FFS!!! ,,,, with six days to our next game there was no reason not to play a full strenght team.
 
24 Howard
03 Baines
06 Jagielka
15 Distin
23 Coleman
11 Mirallas
14 Naismith (McCarthy - 46' )
18 Barry
20 Barkley
21 Osman (Oviedo - 52' )
07 Jelavic (Lukaku - 46' )


01 Robles
05 Heitinga (Barry - 69' )
15 Distin
23 Coleman
26 Stones
04 Gibson (Jagielka - 69' )
08 Oviedo
10 Deulofeu
14 Naismith (Mirallas - 80' )
16 McCarthy
17 Lukaku

Its not like we changed things that much, ok we took out Baines and replaced him with Oviedo, but we changed Osman for Gibson and Lukaku for Jelavic, which is a plus in my eyes. The only person that didnt "belong" on that pitch is Heitinga.
 
Artetafan said:
Possibly, people say all sorts of stuff but I don't really see your point.
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ilikecheese said:
It's as if you are saying we would have been guaranteed a win with a different team selection...there is certainly no way of knowing that. I submit Deulofeu made us look far more dangerous than we have this season going forward...save maybe the second half at West Ham.

Second guessing the team selection is so bloody easy.
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That is my point...I merely offered what would have been likely scenarios if things had gone differently.
 

ilikecheese said:
That is my point...I merely offered what would have been likely scenarios if things had gone differently.
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I'm upset that we lost.

And, since we lost, I'm looking at where we could have done better. And the fact we didn't have certain players on the pitch and they weren't bought on in the second half I think is part of the reason. I think martinez got his subs wrong more then he got his starting line up wrong, if I'm honest. We didn't react well to Fulham turning the game around. He took too long to introduce Mirallas and should have used barkley.

Obviously I don't know that if Martinez had bought on barkley rather than jagileka at 2-1 we'd have done better but I do know that what he tried didn't work.
 
Tubey said:
Following on from a discussion in the match thread that has honestly taken me by surprise, so a genuine question for the younger fans.

Do you genuinely feel that winning the League Cup (or ANY cup for that matter) is a prerequisite for Everton to be an established big club?

The reason I ask is because I understand we haven't won anything since 1995 and that is now an entire life for an 18 year old lad, so I wonder how much influence the history and prestige of the club has on how you view yourself as an Evertonian.

Now, I'm not deluded. I know we're not a successful footballing giant in the modern era like Manchester United, or even to a lesser extent Liverpool. Or one of the nouveau riche Chelsea and Man City, who could be argued to be "bigger" depending on your criteria.

But I'm alarmed at the absolute panic at not playing a full strength side in a League Cup game in a transitional season following a good start in the league? See, for me, we're still a massive football club, and the focus will always be above and beyond the League Cup.

So... yeah, are younger people seriously in meltdown over going out of the League Cup or is this just temporary over the top kneejerking?
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Some of those comments were mine. Just to add I am 42 years old, supported Everton since 1976 aged 5 while living in Cyprus. I remember the Bob Latchford Era as well as the glory times of the 80's so seeing this attitude of cup is below us and means nothing etc was very very disappointing.

There was no panic, there was anger not so much at the fact we lost, lots of disappointment but more at the pathetic attitude of some of our fans about not giving a crap that we lost a game and a cup game at that. That competition was below us, har bloody har.

This attitude that the premier league is it and nothing else matters is a stupid attitude. I want to do well in the league and some bloody trophies as well. Lets be honest we aren't going to win the league so lets at least try and win the ones we can.

Where I work there are 2 other football fans.. One a born and bred Hammers fan now living down here and the other a Saints fan. At work yesterday all 3 of us were saying we hoped we put out decent teams because if we were ever to win a trophy this was as good a one as any to win and one we all felt we had a chance of doing well in.

We also felt that putting out a changed team made things risky especially against decent (premier league) opposition and we are out which means are only chance of winning any silverware is the FA Cup. A trophy apparently big enough for us to win.
 
mkrudden said:
Eh?!?! we are not rotating to give the players a rest, we are giving minutes to people who we WILL need as the season progresses and therefore need to gain sharpness ONLY obtained through playing competitive game.

Lets say he had played our best 11, and a day before the game against Newcastle we have flu going through the squad. He would have to throw Darron Gibson for example, into the game with NO minutes under his belt since the injury.

Gareth Barry cant play against City, we need his replacement - Gibson - to have some playing time

Bryan Oviedo - needs minutes
Heitinga & Stones - what if Distin/Jags get injured? Same point as above

This point was even highlighted by RM in his post-match interview!!!!!
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By all means give playing time to the fringe players against lesser opposition (yeah, like thats worked out before )

But doing it against a premiership team is beyond stupid,,,, its just stupid.
 

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