Stature

[Chang Elephant]

*hires assassin

If that's what it takes....

 

[Stan Lee Park]

Following on from a discussion in the match thread that has honestly taken me by surprise, so a genuine question for the younger fans.

Do you genuinely feel that winning the League Cup (or ANY cup for that matter) is a prerequisite for Everton to be an established big club?

The reason I ask is because I understand we haven't won anything since 1995 and that is now an entire life for an 18 year old lad, so I wonder how much influence the history and prestige of the club has on how you view yourself as an Evertonian.

Now, I'm not deluded. I know we're not a successful footballing giant in the modern era like Manchester United, or even to a lesser extent Liverpool. Or one of the nouveau riche Chelsea and Man City, who could be argued to be "bigger" depending on your criteria.

But I'm alarmed at the absolute panic at not playing a full strength side in a League Cup game in a transitional season following a good start in the league? See, for me, we're still a massive football club, and the focus will always be above and beyond the League Cup.

So... yeah, are younger people seriously in meltdown over going out of the League Cup or is this just temporary over the top kneejerking?

I find it quite staggering, but symptomatic of the Premier League era, that we are willing to sacrifice a trophy and a place in Europe for a (not necessarily certain) few extra points in the League.
As far as I am concerned, we should play our full strength side in every competitive game. There is no argument for resting players or for using important games like last night's (or the Leeds game) to "give the fringe players a run-out".
We won't be regarded as a massive club if we go another 18 years without a trophy.

And before you ask, I'm a lot nearer 80 than I am 18. This is not an age thing - more one of pride in the club.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Following on from a discussion in the match thread that has honestly taken me by surprise, so a genuine question for the younger fans.

Do you genuinely feel that winning the League Cup (or ANY cup for that matter) is a prerequisite for Everton to be an established big club?

The reason I ask is because I understand we haven't won anything since 1995 and that is now an entire life for an 18 year old lad, so I wonder how much influence the history and prestige of the club has on how you view yourself as an Evertonian.

Now, I'm not deluded. I know we're not a successful footballing giant in the modern era like Manchester United, or even to a lesser extent Liverpool. Or one of the nouveau riche Chelsea and Man City, who could be argued to be "bigger" depending on your criteria.

But I'm alarmed at the absolute panic at not playing a full strength side in a League Cup game in a transitional season following a good start in the league? See, for me, we're still a massive football club, and the focus will always be above and beyond the League Cup.

So... yeah, are younger people seriously in meltdown over going out of the League Cup or is this just temporary over the top kneejerking?

anyone who has a genuine meltdown after yesterday is a bit naive imo

 

[Stan Lee Park]

anyone who has a genuine meltdown after yesterday is a bit naive imo

Your opinion, as you say, and you are entitled to it.

My opinion is that anyone who calmly accepts the defeat has a strange sense of priorities.

 

[mkrudden]

I find it quite staggering, but symptomatic of the Premier League era, that we are willing to sacrifice a trophy and a place in Europe for a (not necessarily certain) few extra points in the League.
As far as I am concerned, we should play our full strength side in every competitive game. There is no argument for resting players or for using important games like last night's (or the Leeds game) to "give the fringe players a run-out".
We won't be regarded as a massive club if we go another 18 years without a trophy.

And before you ask, I'm a lot nearer 80 than I am 18. This is not an age thing - more one of pride in the club.

I dont think its an age thing at all. My opinion is that its a lack of understanding of how integral it is to keep more than 11 first choice players match fit all season round

 

[Allezfan]

I dont think its an age thing at all. My opinion is that its a lack of understanding of how integral it is to keep more than 11 first choice players match fit all season round

Do you honestly think 60 minutes in the carling cup possibly four months before they're needed will make that big a difference, though?

 

[mkrudden]

Do you honestly think 60 minutes in the carling cup possibly four months before they're needed will make that big a difference, though?

you mention 4 months, but whos to say we dont pick up and injury or 2 against Newcastle at the weekend? To base a team selection on confidence that you wont pick up a single injury to your first 11 is a little over-confident isnt it?

I again put to the example of Darron Gibson, who is needed against City because Barry cant play. Would you have preferred him to go into that game with no prior first team action since his injury? He would probably play like he did last night - poor!

Even if we miraculously survive 4 months as you give as an example, id rather them have had the 60 minutes than no minutes whatsoever.

In terms of a the biggest difference, I believe it will have been made to the morale and motivation of the players on the fringes/in the squad. Jonny Heitinga, Bryan Oviedo, Gerard Deulofeu, John Stones, Joel Robles... these lads need a chance to impress. They need a chance to show what they can do and hopefully show that they warrant a place in the first 11.

Thats what didnt happen last night. The team selection was fine, the performance 2nd half of the players was the issue. We were boss first half, the tempo dropped in the second and Fulham suffocated us.

 

[chicoazul]

And why exactly were we resting players a full six days before a home game against Newcastle?

If you want to rotate players or get them game time, you make two or three changes then bring some more on as subs if possible. What was it, eight changes last night?

Tubey's ducked that point from me a couple of times lid.

I find it quite staggering, but symptomatic of the Premier League era, that we are willing to sacrifice a trophy and a place in Europe for a (not necessarily certain) few extra points in the League.
As far as I am concerned, we should play our full strength side in every competitive game. There is no argument for resting players or for using important games like last night's (or the Leeds game) to "give the fringe players a run-out".
We won't be regarded as a massive club if we go another 18 years without a trophy.

And before you ask, I'm a lot nearer 80 than I am 18. This is not an age thing - more one of pride in the club.

Well said that man.

 

[mkrudden]

.


Well said that man.

Even though its impossible to do such, maintain form and fitness with 11 players for the season.

Hmmmm

 

[Allezfan]

Our training and reserves league etc needs scrapping if the only way to keep our squad players ready is to play 50 minutes in a league cup game in september.

I honestly don't think heitinga, robles, oviedo, gibson or Naismith (who are the five controversies) will act any different if they're picked in the league, whenever that is, depending on whether or not they played vs fulham.

Maybe I'm being naive when I say that, but that's my opinion.

And, of course, even if he is 60 minutes behind the curve when we need gibson vs man city, for instance, I'd rather lose a league game than a cup game so.

 

[Goat]

Pipe down pyar swede.

 

[Goat]

Our training and reserves league etc needs scrapping if the only way to keep our squad players ready is to play 50 minutes in a league cup game in september.

I honestly don't think heitinga, robles, oviedo, gibson or Naismith (who are the five controversies) will act any different if they're picked in the league, whenever that is, depending on whether or not they played vs fulham.

Maybe I'm being naive when I say that, but that's my opinion.

And, of course, even if he is 60 minutes behind the curve when we need gibson vs man city, for instance, I'd rather lose a league game than a cup game so.

Dont be stupid.

FFS

 

[Tubey]

Even though its impossible to do such, maintain form and fitness with 11 players for the season.

Hmmmm

Chico's ducked that point from me a couple of times lid.

Still yet to hear a compelling argument to suggest that Roberto Martinez and the vast majority of Premier League managers are wrong to rotate in the League Cup. Probably because there isn't one to be found!

 

[chicoazul]

Even though its impossible to do such, maintain form and fitness with 11 players for the season.

Hmmmm

Of course its not mate but thats not the point is it?

 

[Allezfan]

Dont be stupid.

FFS

I think heitinga and naismith could player every game of the 1970 world cup for brazil and still not be ready to play for everton, if I'm honest.

Robles is a reserve goalkeeper, sitting on the bench is kind of his thing. And gibson wasn't fit to play as long as he didm should've been given a little longer to recuperate.