Steve Walsh - no longer our Director of Football

[Saint Domingo]

I don't know if you are right or it's what you want to believe.

Under Unsworth against Norwich the team looked like the had finally been allowed to play with the hand brake off and that was one game straight after Martinez.

Even during Martinez reign there was the FA Cup semi final were the same thing happened in the 2nd half. I think it's tactics but hopefully you are right.

I think we've seen enough flashes of good football under Koeman which makes me confident that the tactics are not the problem, it is that we don't have the players to implement them and that the modus operandi of most of the players is still to revert back to the patterns and work rate ingrained under Martinez.

The Norwich game was notable for the impact of Davies Dowell Pennington etc. It was hugely noticeable even before that game (think it was Southampton at home) when Davies and Connely played that they were sharper, fitter, more aggressive, more physical than every other Everton player.

Koeman and Walsh need to evaluate which players can change to what they want, which players never will and need to leave, and which players they can bring in to build on Gueye and Bolasie to give us the consistency we need. Until Jan though, unless they use more youth players, their hands are largely tied, and only Koeman's influence on the training ground can get rid of Maryinez's bad habits but that may be a slow process.

 

[GwladysPhil]

I don't know if you are right or it's what you want to believe.

Under Unsworth against Norwich the team looked like the had finally been allowed to play with the hand brake off and that was one game straight after Martinez.

Even during Martinez reign there was the FA Cup semi final were the same thing happened in the 2nd half. I think it's tactics but hopefully you are right.

I have a strong belief that the second half performance of the FA Cup semi was from the players being fed up of the Martinez tactics and taking things into their own hands - which showed an evident improvement.

There's a video of the players going into the tunnel at half time and you can see Jags and Barkley moaning, and baines saying "it's a big pitch and we're making it bigger"

 

[MartyMcFly]

I have a strong belief that the second half performance of the FA Cup semi was from the players being fed up of the Martinez tactics and taking things into their own hands - which showed an evident improvement.

There's a video of the players going into the tunnel at half time and you can see Jags and Barkley moaning, and baines saying "it's a big pitch and we're making it bigger"

If so then that's only more evidence it's tactics.

I guess we just have to give it time and in the meantime be happy we are picking up points.

 

[mkrudden]

I think we've seen enough flashes of good football under Koeman which makes me confident that the tactics are not the problem, it is that we don't have the players to implement them and that the modus operandi of most of the players is still to revert back to the patterns and work rate ingrained under Martinez.

The Norwich game was notable for the impact of Davies Dowell Pennington etc. It was hugely noticeable even before that game (think it was Southampton at home) when Davies and Connely played that they were sharper, fitter, more aggressive, more physical than every other Everton player.

Koeman and Walsh need to evaluate which players can change to what they want, which players never will and need to leave, and which players they can bring in to build on Gueye and Bolasie to give us the consistency we need. Until Jan though, unless they use more youth players, their hands are largely tied, and only Koeman's influence on the training ground can get rid of Maryinez's bad habits but that may be a slow process.

Whilst I fully admit it's great watching the blues who look better defensively, eradicating Martinez's bad habits will make us only more so this - solid.

IMO, it's beyond silly to think that under Martinez we didn't attack well. Koeman is going to take us further, I think, but he won't reach anywhere near the level of excitement that Martinez achieved in season 1 in relation to the manner we got there. Even last season, we attacked with gusto any team that had a go. The problems were the teams who sat deep and counter-attacked.

 

[BlueToff]

I think it's a mixture of factors. The players we have with pace and power (Lukaku, Barkley, Mirallas) do not have the inclination or attitude to press for 90 minutes. No matter how many times Koeman drops them or subs them they come out seemingly with the same old jogging around letting the game pass them by. The players who do have the motivation to work for 90 mins (Barry and Cleverley) don't have the pace or power to do so. They're trying to plug gaps left by others but end up stranded unable to get to opposition midfielders quick enough.

Koeman's recruitment of Gueye and Bolasie have helped somewhat because they have the pace and power to keep that game up for 90 minutes. Teams like Spurs Liverpool City can do this from 1-11 (and their subs) all game nearly every game.

Sadly the era of anti football seems to be upon us now. The biggest fastest strongest teams will most likely win more games in the premier league than a team packed with intricate tricksters. Unless you've got Messi and Iniesta in their prime, it is almost impossible to work around these mad dog teams who will tear after you from the first whistle.

Everton never used to be worried about rising to a physical challenge. In the glory of the 80s, the depths of the 90s, and the early 2000s we at least always prided ourselves on the fact that we could compete physically with any team. We never shied away. We bullied far better Liverpool teams in the 90s whilst in the 80s we could out play or outfight anyone.

We now have to recognise what is happening in the prem now, and not be too proud to embrace it. We need to regain our physical edge over teams and son the battle before winning the match.

Sadly a collection of some of the best players in footballing history at Barcelona have convinced the Martinez's of the world that physical strength speed and height are bad things and that only ball retention wins games. Other teams in Europe who have been successful in the same period (Chelsea, Atletico, Bayern, Real, Dortmund) have built their success on pace power counterattacking football.

We need to get back to bullying teams like Palace off Goodison rather than getting our slow creative players to chase shadows at our own stadium for 45 mins if every game.

Agree mate.

But this thing with 'bullying' Palace (not just from you btw) needs to stop.

We've beaten them once in 20 years or something stupid (at Goodison) - and in all fairness to Pardew they've got a very good squad that fits playing away from home.

Pacey, strong wingers, and a bloody good target man.

We'll be fine. We need more additions when the time comes but so far it bodes well. I don't think the football has been an issue at all - and people only need to look how Koeman set out his team at S'ton to know it won't be an issue.

A few poor games and key players in poor form hasn't helped in the last few weeks. Baines has been a huge miss as well.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Whilst I fully admit it's great watching the blues who look better defensively, eradicating Martinez's bad habits will make us only more so this - solid.

IMO, it's beyond silly to think that under Martinez we didn't attack well. Koeman is going to take us further, I think, but he won't reach anywhere near the level of excitement that Martinez achieved in season 1 in relation to the manner we got there. Even last season, we attacked with gusto any team that had a go. The problems were the teams who sat deep and counter-attacked.

We were also dropping points against the teams that had a go.

Although I agree but I'm not expecting Koeman to attack like Martinez. I just want the balance to be better than it is currently.

 

[BlueToff]

If so then that's only more evidence it's tactics.

I guess we just have to give it time and in the meantime be happy we are picking up points.

We've picked up 14 points out of 21 on offer - four points behind City and we're a point above United, whose squad is worth £900million.

Honestly, anybody unhappy with this start needs to give their head a wobble.

What do people expect!?

 

[BlueToff]

Whilst I fully admit it's great watching the blues who look better defensively, eradicating Martinez's bad habits will make us only more so this - solid.

IMO, it's beyond silly to think that under Martinez we didn't attack well. Koeman is going to take us further, I think, but he won't reach anywhere near the level of excitement that Martinez achieved in season 1 in relation to the manner we got there. Even last season, we attacked with gusto any team that had a go. The problems were the teams who sat deep and counter-attacked.

While I agree fully mate - from March onwards last year I've never seen a team play with less gusto all over the park - it was totally inept.

People complaining now baffle me.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Agree mate.

But this thing with 'bullying' Palace (not just from you btw) needs to stop.

We've beaten them once in 20 years or something stupid (at Goodison) - and in all fairness to Pardew they've got a very good squad that fits playing away from home.

Pacey, strong wingers, and a bloody good target man.

We'll be fine. We need more additions when the time comes but so far it bodes well. I don't think the football has been an issue at all - and people only need to look how Koeman set out his team at S'ton to know it won't be an issue.

A few poor games and key players in poor form hasn't helped in the last few weeks. Baines has been a huge miss as well.

Yea Palace was always a hard game. It would have been nice to make up the points we dropped at Bournemouth but not the worst result.

 

[BlueToff]

Yea Palace was always a hard game. It would have been nice to make up the points we dropped at Bournemouth but not the worst result.

This - it's frustrating but I just don't understand how anybody can look at where we are currently and be too upset.

Yes, we need a few more additions but the main thing is that the very good players we have (looking at you, Ross) start to step up again.

 

[MartyMcFly]

This - it's frustrating but I just don't understand how anybody can look at where we are currently and be too upset.

Yes, we need a few more additions but the main thing is that the very good players we have (looking at you, Ross) start to step up again.

They aren't. They just aren't convinced by us either and given the fixtures and the way we are playing that's not hard to see why.

 

[BlueToff]

They aren't. They just aren't convinced by us either and given the fixtures and the way we are playing that's not hard to see why.

I can get the 'not convinced' thing - but I don't think that's down to the manager. Koeman, I'm convinced by. What I'm not convinced by is our players, ultimately, to be consistent enough.

However, 'the way' we're playing' hasn't been poor at all. The last few days have been frustrating as hell, but all in all we've looked good (when it's clicked).

 

[MartyMcFly]

I can get the 'not convinced' thing - but I don't think that's down to the manager. Koeman, I'm convinced by. What I'm not convinced by is our players, ultimately, to be consistent enough.

However, 'the way' we're playing' hasn't been poor at all. The last few days have been frustrating as hell, but all in all we've looked good (when it's clicked).

I'm not convinced by the players either.

 

[brieverton]

I don't have any issue with Koeman adopting a more pragmatic, but less "easy on the eye" style of football if this turns out to be effective in getting results. He will need another 2 windows at least, and sufficient backing, to make the squad his own. Of course, he is mandated to work with and improve what he inherited, but in my view that's pretty limited to begin with unfortunately.

I'm relatively satisfied as things stand but there is a big rebuilding job ahead of Koeman. There seemed to be a regression in our pressing game over the last few matches and I'm not sure why that could be. Koeman's whole ethos is heavily dependent on the team pressing as a whole, and he was quoted in The Telegraph last week as saying some of the players had "mental issues" with it. For some of them, this probably translates into "not fit (literally) for purpose" but he has to work with what he's got.

I don't have any beef with Koeman, things have gone pretty much as well as can be expected (aside from the LC exit) so far, which equates to an improvement already in my book. In large part, the measure of his success of the next few years will be heavily dependent on being backed big-style in the transfer market. Short of Walsh pulling 3 or 4 gems out of the hat in the next few seasons, I don't see any other way of being successful.

 

[granter79]

We've picked up 14 points out of 21 on offer - four points behind City and we're a point above United, whose squad is worth £900million.

Honestly, anybody unhappy with this start needs to give their head a wobble.

What do people expect!?

Stop talking sense. No place in here for it pal