The biggest bottle job in history

[Drico]

Is happening in Brazil right now




Any other contenders apart from Newcastle ?

The Limerick hurlers, circa 1994 - and Jimmy White.

 

[Zatara]

Burnley 2 years ago when they were 5 points clear of us with 5 games remaining then eventually got relegated!

Sniff it you inbred MoFo's

If youre an opposition manager you dont consider Everton as being a relegation rival....we simlly dont do relegation.

 

[JLW]

If youre an opposition manager you dont consider Everton as being a relegation rival....we simlly dont do relegation.

And it wont happen this season either even with the 10 points removed.

 

[jazzy]

Not football, but a pal of mine is a pro golfer, on the seniors tour these days. Was 5 shots clear at the final 3 holes of a decent paying tournament. Bogey, bogey, triple bogey. Finished 2nd or 3rd. Cost him circa £70k. He does not like talking about it.

Bloody hell. I'd give up golf after that

 

[Cork Evertonian]

The Limerick hurlers, circa 1994 - and Jimmy White.

For me it was that Waterford team with John Mullane, Tony Browne, Ken McGrath and Paul Flynn in it. 2007 should've been their year imo.

They walked into an ambush in that years semi final though, and what was in my opinion a decent but ordinary enough Limerick team beat them.

They did get to the all Ireland in 2008, but that team was already past it's peak at that point.

 

[Drico]

For me it was that Waterford team with John Mullane, Tony Browne, Ken McGrath and Paul Flynn in it. 2007 should've been their year imo.

They walked into an ambush in that years semi final though, and what was in my opinion a decent but ordinary enough Limerick team beat them.

They did get to the all Ireland in 2008, but that team was already past it's peak at that point.

They would have been eaten alive by Kilkenny - as indeed they were the following year. Limerick did them a favour.

You're right that that was a decent but ordinary enough Limerick side. If Waterford could lose a big game to them, they were winning nothing against Kilkenny. Indeed, that Limerick team was rather unheralded. They lost to that great Kilkenny side by seven points. Waterford, the following year, lost by 23. That Waterford side had a collection of great individuals, but were never a great team. The smaller counties often suffer for lack of team depth.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

They would have been eaten alive by Kilkenny - as indeed they were the following year. Limerick did them a favour.

You're right that that was a decent but ordinary enough Limerick side. If Waterford could lose a big game to them, they were winning nothing against Kilkenny. Indeed, that Limerick team was rather unheralded. They lost to that great Kilkenny side by seven points. Waterford, the following year, lost by 23. That Waterford side had a collection of great individuals, but were never a great team. The smaller counties often suffer for lack of team depth.

In 2007 i felt that Waterford reached their peak as a team. The great Kilkenny team under Cody didn't reach it's peak until 2008 imo.

I think Waterford were playing for the third weekend in a row as well after beating us in a replay.

The bottom line though is that they had more than enough chances to win an all Ireland, but they didn't take any of them.

 

[Drico]

In 2007 i felt that Waterford reached their peak as a team. The great Kilkenny team under Cody didn't reach it's peak until 2008 imo.

I think Waterford were playing for the third weekend in a row as well after beating us in a replay.

The bottom line though is that they had more than enough chances to win an all Ireland, but they didn't take any of them.

We hammered them in Croke Park. We used to hammer nobody but Antrim in Croke Park. Waterford's problem is nobody ever fears them. Certainly, Limerick ALWAYS expect to beat Waterford - even when we were, arguably, only the fourth or fifth best team in Munster rather than our traditional third. To be fair, that tends to be the case for most sides - not being feared - unless they are one of the so-called "big three" or this current Limerick team. I remember hearing Tony Browne, in advance of the 2020 All-Ireland final, saying Limerick had to win two before Waterford - their opponents in that final - would fear them. There's something in that. Waterford were admired, enjoyed, and supported. But nobody ever feared them. Sides that win things often start five points up in people's heads out of fear. If Waterford could have won one, who knows what they might have achieved. I hope they get there some day. Their fans deserve a day in the sun.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

We hammered them in Croke Park. We used to hammer nobody but Antrim in Croke Park. Waterford's problem is nobody ever fears them. Certainly, Limerick ALWAYS expect to beat Waterford - even when we were, arguably, only the fourth or fifth best team in Munster rather than our traditional third. To be fair, that tends to be the case for most sides - not being feared - unless they are one of the so-called "big three" or this current Limerick team. I remember hearing Tony Browne, in advance of the 2020 All-Ireland final, saying Limerick had to win two before Waterford - their opponents in that final - would fear them. There's something in that. Waterford were admired, enjoyed, and supported. But nobody ever feared them. Sides that win things often start five points up in people's heads out of fear. If Waterford could have won one, who knows what they might have achieved. I hope they get there some day. Their fans deserve a day in the sun.

They played some great games in Thurles, but they could never produce the goods in Croke Park. I would argue that tradition is not much of a factor in modern-day hurling.

Cork have only won three all Irelands since 1990, with the most recent one being almost twenty years ago! Kilkenny and Tipp don't have it like they used to either.

 

[Drico]

They played some great games in Thurles, but they could never produce the goods in Croke Park. I would argue that tradition is not much of a factor in modern-day hurling.

Cork have only won three all Irelands since 1990, with the most recent one being almost twenty years ago! Kilkenny and Tipp don't have it like they used to either.

I agree. I don't think tradition per se is a factor at all. But when you face a great team - a great winning machine - then yes, fear is a factor. Waterford's problem in 2007 was they had won nothing but Munster. That's not enough to be feared. Nobody fears Cork or Tipp or Kilkenny right now because these current sides are not winning machines like some of their old, great sides were. They lack the aura of their great sides. And they do not benefit from a fear factor. Respect, absolutely. All are more than capable of beating anybody on their day. Fear? Not right now.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

I agree. I don't think tradition per se is a factor at all. But when you face a great team - a great winning machine - then yes, fear is a factor. Waterford's problem in 2007 was they had won nothing but Munster. That's not enough to be feared. Nobody fears Cork or Tipp or Kilkenny right now because these current sides are not winning machines like some of their old, great sides were. They lack the aura of their great sides. And they do not benefit from a fear factor. Respect, absolutely. All are more than capable of beating anybody on their day. Fear? Not right now.

In terms of the main contenders for hurling all Irelands historically, you'd have Cork, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Limerick, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Wexford, Dublin and Offaly and Antrim i suppose as well.

Hurling is second by a fair old distance to gaelic football in Dublin, so that's ten hurling counties and since 1959 Waterford have not won the big prize even once!

It's tough going for Waterford folk, and i agree with you i'd love for their long suffering fans, to feel what it's like to be a Limerick person and of course a Cork, Kilkenny and Tipp person as well.

They did come close to beating Galway in the 2017 final though. Galway of course are another hurling county that flatters to deceive a lot of the time as well!

 

[Drico]

In terms of the main contenders for hurling all Irelands historically, you'd have Cork, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Limerick, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Wexford, Dublin and Offaly and Antrim i suppose as well.

Hurling is second by a fair old distance to gaelic football in Dublin, so that's ten hurling counties and since 1959 Waterford have not won the big prize even once!

It's tough going for Waterford folk, and i agree with you i'd love for their long suffering fans, to feel what it's like to be a Limerick person and of course a Cork, Kilkenny and Tipp person as well.

They did come close to beating Galway in the 2017 final though. Galway of course are another hurling county that flatters to deceive a lot of the time as well!

I suppose Waterford's lack of success is to be expected when they are, usually, only the fourth or fifth best side in Munster. Clare, however, their rivals for that dubious honour, did find a way to win big games. That said, perhaps their timing was more fortuitous. They did emerge to win two titles in the 1990s when Cork, Kilkenny, and Tipperary were in something of a lull. Indeed, we in Limerick wonder how they won two and we none despite beating them 2 out of 3 times in the big clashes of 1994, 1995, and 1996 when both counties were at the top. However, our current generation has given the lie to any thoughts that we were unlucky in the 1990s. Truth is, we weren't quite good enough. We had some glorious players like Waterford a decade later - Gary Kirby and Ciaran Carey would ease into our current side - but not enough quality around them. We always found it hard to put out 15 quality players.

Clare developed a brilliant siege mentality in the 1990s and Loughnane was sharp. They became a very fine side. Their wins in the 1990s gave the following generation the sense that Clare could win. They never had that belief before. This is where tradition does matter. Kids have to believe they can win and that they are not intrinsically inferior to Cork or Tipp.

Limerick's lack of success up to 2018 can partially be attributed to our geographic location. We have traditionally been fourth in the order of merit - the best of the rest - but we have had to contend with two of the big three to even get out of Munster. Had we been in Leinster we would have had to meet only one and would, at least, been in more finals. Even so, we struggled to convert our chances. Tipp have more than twice our number of All-Irelands, yet when we meet them in Munster finals it's almost 50-50 (9 v. 8 to Tipp). Even overall it is 38-29, hardly a one-sided rivalry. But then, we never fear Tipp and they really do hate playing us as they see themselves on Cork's level and find us an irritant in ways that Cork rarely did. I suppose that's the difference between playing in Munster and in Croke Park. Mentality. But then, you can only develop that with practice, and we get plenty of opportunities to play at Croke Park now. In that sense, the format helps most counties now.

 

[Nymzee]

PL trying to relegate us.

 

[Tommy Chong]

I stand to be corrected, but I think this is probably the largest bottle job...

Must have taken them ages to make.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Us, 1974/75. 8 points from 20 in last 10 games.Lost two games to relegated sides, ended up 4th, 3pts behind winners Derby

Don't