The David Moyes debate

[Seamus Colemole]

NOBODY IS SAYING THERE ISN'T ANYONE BETTER THAN MOYES, JUST STOP SUGGESTING WORSE MANAGERS. MARTINEZ IS WORSE.

JEEEEESUS CHRIST.

Based on what ?

And PLENTY of people have said we couldn't get anybody who would do what Moyes has done. Perhaps not in this thread, but they have. Repeatedly.

I do love the expert judgement on what determines a good manager.

"well his team are below ours so therefor he must be **** and worse than our manager".

Never realised managing was so black and white.

I think i mentioned some factors that can influence how well a manager does at a club in my long previous post regarding timespans.

AVB didn't go from being a good manager at Porto to a **** manager at Chelsea just because he didn't repeat the succcess.

Alan Pardew didn't go from being a **** manager (and lets face it, 2 years ago he would of been met with exactly that response if mentioned as a possible Everton boss) to a good manager because he's on the verge of taking Newcastle into the Champs league less than 3 seasons after they were relegated.

I posted before that Sam Allardyce had a only slightly inferior record to Moyes in his time at Bolton yet i bet you'd all call him **** if he was suggested as a possible Everton boss. Yet he didn't do well at Newcastle.

So many variables can affect a clubs results other than quality of manager to simply look at league positions and say that x manager is good/**** is so short sighted.

 

[Brennan]

There's more kneejerkers on this forum than Dr Richard Steadman's surgery. FFS.

Kenada_blue and Brennan91. In particular.

Just chin them lad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Steadman

It's the resident Kopite.

 

[paulbefc]

Most of Moyes big sales have been HIS OWN PLAYERS. Lescott, bought for £4m roughly, sold for £24m. Arteta is another, Felli and Baines are world beaters right now, bought with money from player sales that Moyes bought to begin with for cheap.

I should add that I don't believe Martinez has shown much, if any ability to find diamonds in the rough. That has to be the most important skill an Everton manager can have at present.

No, Heitinga wouldn't morph into Caldwell etc but we wouldn't see many more Heitingas, Lescotts etc coming in. Certainly not anywhere near as often as under Moyes.

 

[Matt Damon]

Ok are you honestly a retard?

Serious question.

He would have had less money at Everton, as I pointed out earlier, God your so fcking dim.

Wheres his progress?

Nowhere, thats where.

Your on ignore, cos your to stupid for me to talk to.

Lord Goat of Moutinho has spoken.

 

[Brennan]

Ok are you honestly a retard?

Serious question.

He would have had less money at Everton, as I pointed out earlier, God your so fcking dim.

Wheres his progress?

Nowhere, thats where.

Your on ignore, cos your to stupid for me to talk to.

Go throw your toys out of the pram somewhere else you big baby.

He would have had less money at Everton, but he also wouldn't haven started with a crap squad.

Moyes has spent far more than Martinez has during his time at Everton and was given a much better team to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

 

[paulbefc]

so in order to fill this management criteria, you also have to buy cheap and sell for loads?

Yes because, due to most of our money going to the bank, small incoming fees are pretty much the same as giving a player away, as far as our transfer budget is concerned.

 

[Kurt.]

The NET SPEND argument is a week one.... it's the same argument the RS use this season after an ACTUAL spend of over 100 million on players,,, their net spend was around 35 million i think... Net spend is irrelevant as the m
oney to buy players has actually been spent and is not sat in some hidden bank account somewhere.


Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[Brennan]

I should add that I don't believe Martinez has shown much, if any ability to find diamonds in the rough. That has to be the most important skill an Everton manager can have at present.

No, Heitinga wouldn't morph into Caldwell etc but we wouldn't see many more Heitingas, Lescotts etc coming in. Certainly not anywhere near as often as under Moyes.

Are you seriously implying that Moyes is the only factor when it comes to finding good players ? COME. ON.

Scouting networks, club size and reputation, ability to pay wages all factor into signing good players. Saying that Martinez couldn't do it just because he hasn't signed a Lescott at Wigan is so silly.

 

[kenada_blue]

That doesn't even make sense.

Of course there are better managers than Moyes, and i agree with the comments from Davek * unbelievably* Whilst Kenwright sits in the big seat, Moyes will have a job because has got us to where we are today ... TODAY .. which means tomorrow ...we need to carry on, Osman, Neville & Hibbert will ALL have a job whilst Moyes has a job, he has SAID IT HIMSELF.

So, no there are numerous managers better than Moyes, but all i see are sh*tty managers who have a splash in the pan and everyone is foaming at the mouth to replace a manager who has seen us through our most difficult chapter as a club.

That is all.

it does make sense...

It stands at - Moyes is portrayed as a manager who is better than everton, who needs a bigger job.

So, if he goes, who out there would become manager of everton realistically, and take us a step forward?

Apparently, everyone has an answer as to who shouldn't get it...who has the answer to who should get it?

 

[Brennan]

You mean he has a lower win percentage with a relegation battling side ?

BLOODY HELL !

 

[Matt Damon]

Are you seriously implying that Moyes is the only factor when it comes to finding good players ? COME. ON.

Scouting networks, club size and reputation, ability to pay wages all factor into signing good players. Saying that Martinez couldn't do it just because he hasn't signed a Lescott at Wigan is so silly.

Brennan91 - Biggest kneejerker on GOT.

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/42883-Dear-David

I know I've slated you in recent weeks Mr Moyes, but I'd just like to thank you for getting that performance from the team tonight. That's two games in a row where we've played some lovely football. Please keep it up on Saturday.

He changes his views on the manager more than he changes his socks.


You've got nothing on Goat lad. Nothing. He'll eat you for breakfast.

 

[kenada_blue]

The NET SPEND argument is a week one.... it's the same argument the RS use this season after an ACTUAL spend of over 100 million on players,,, their net spend was around 35 million i think... Net spend is irrelevant as the m
oney to buy players has actually been spent and is not sat in some hidden bank account somewhere.


Thats my opinion anyway.

Totally agree.

When there's money to spend, you spend it well...you dont moan about spending £26million (RS on Torres) then complain we havent spent anything NET being a reason for failure etc

 

[Brennan]

Brennan91 - Biggest kneejerker on GOT.

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/42883-Dear-David

He changes his views on the manager more than he changes his socks.

Dear Damon,

Please explain how saying well done to David Moyes for some good team performances has any effect on my opinion of Martinez as a manager.

Oh wait, it has zero to do with anything. Hope you've got your travel down to Wembley sorted for the 5th. YNWA ?

 

[paulbefc]

Are you seriously implying that Moyes is the only factor when it comes to finding good players ? COME. ON.

Scouting networks, club size and reputation, ability to pay wages all factor into signing good players. Saying that Martinez couldn't do it just because he hasn't signed a Lescott at Wigan is so silly.

When we sign someone sh*t it's all Moyes' fault but when we pull off a fantastic signing it's got to be treated as a group effort by unnamed people at the club for some reason. Moyes is the most important factor in who we sign. If someone is suggested Moyes (obviously) watches them, does background checks etc etc and then has final say and his transfer record shows that he's f*cking brilliant at picking the right players and players that can improve over time. Martinez... not so much.