The David Moyes debate

[paulbefc]

I never said they were as good as what Moyes signs, but they're good considering the team and the money he has to spend. Players go to teams which they think are good enough for them, most players don't dream of signing for relegation battlers.

Moyes has signed some good cheap players, but he's signed plenty of crap too. Like i said, give Martinez the amount of money and a club with the same stature as Moyes has and then you can say he's rubbish. Until then, it's all just speculation.

Li Tie ffs. LI TIE.

Size of club doesn't matter when it's speculative buys ffs. Tim Cahill, Joleon Lescott, Mikel Arteta, Tim Howard, Steven Pienaar, Joseph Yobo, Marcus Bent, Nigel Martyn, Gibson. They're not all in Moyes' first three years but the difference is they are the DIFFERENCE between teams in the top half and the bottom half. Quality, or were crucial to our biggest achievements for whatever reason. Also they were ALL in Wigan's price range and a club like Wigan could have got pretty much all of them.

At least the managers before Martinez managed to get Valencias Palacioses and Zogs to the club in the first place. I wonder how much they cost originally? We're talking about Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell here ffs. Wigan have never been rich. Since they've been in the prem they've never been lower than where Martinez has got them to.

It's so easy to say it's all just speculation.

 

[Philw]

And Moyes joined in March/Apr 02....

Ah I see what you're getting at... was being a bit thick there... but as we were discussing the CL Qualifying season that sale and subsequent buys need to be included...

Right, I looked in the end:

Bent 2.5m
Kroldrup £3m
Kilbane (undisclosed) £1m according to SSN
Simon Davies (undisclosed) £2.5m according to random site
Naysmith £1m
Beattie £4.5m
McFadden £6m

Adds up to around £19m. Add the big money we got from our 04/05 exploits and european jollies and we have very little money spent of that Rooney fee.

We were massively in debt anyway, you know Bill, we didn't get [Poor language removed] all of it.

We all know that any money the club makes from tv, competition standings etc all goes into the dual black holes that are loan interest and Other Operating Expenses....

FWIW, transfers since Martinez took over, up to winter 2011:

In:[TABLE="width: 695"]
[TR]
[TD]Gustavo Adrian Lopez (From Deportivo La Coruna)
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mauro Boselli (undisclosed, Estudiantes La Plata)
[/TD]
[TD]Tomasz Cywka (free, Derby County)
Antonio Amaya Carazo (loan, Rayo Vallecano)
Jason Koumas (loan, Cardiff City)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vladimir Stojković (loan, Sporting Lisbon)
Gary Caldwell (free, Celtic)
Lohoré Steve Ulrich Gohouri (free)
Victor Moses (undisclosed, Crystal Palace)
Marcelo Martins Moreno (loan, Shakhtar Donetsk)[/TD]
[TD]Won-Hee Cho (loan, Suwon Samsung)
Narcisse-Olivier Kapo Obou (loan, Boulogne)
Daniël de Ridder (loan, Hapoel Tel Aviv)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jordi Gómez García-Penche (Jordi Gomez )
Jason Kelvin Scotland (£2m, Swansea City)
James McCarthy (£1.2m, Hamilton Academical)[/TD]
[TD]Luis Antonio Valencia Mosquera (£16m, Manchester United)
Antoine Sibierski (released)
Lewis Montrose (free, Wycombe Wanderers)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[ToffeeBlueNose]

wow, i have just read this entire thread, it was a good interesting read up until page 8 by the way.....


after that heres what i have to say....

pineapple on cheese on toast wouldn't work but put it on a pizza wow.

 

[ToffeeBlueNose]

in all seriousness, for people who think nobody could replace Moyes, sometimes you just need to give people a chance (a la moyes or even wenger at arsenal, who had heard of him) just look at Roberto Di Matteo at chelski its clicking for him. To say a manager is irreplaceable at any club is mind boggling it really is and you never know what a manager has to offer(i'm talking young guys starting out) until they step up and take the hot seat. Managers go stale and its happening at our club the first 25games this season showed that don't you think.

Moyes wants money now who can blame him he is a proven premiership boss and he wants to push on, we haven't got any end of so lets get someone in who has the hunger and passion Moyes used to have and who knows what might happen.

EDIT: money won't change his approach tactics by the way, thats his style of management.

 

[Brennan]

in all seriousness, for people who think nobody could replace Moyes, sometimes you just need to give people a chance (a la moyes or even wenger at arsenal, who had heard of him) just look at Roberto Di Matteo at chelski its clicking for him. To say a manager is irreplaceable at any club is mind boggling it really is and you never know what a manager has to offer(i'm talking young guys starting out) until they step up and take the hot seat. Managers go stale and its happening at our club the first 25games this season showed that don't you think.

Moyes wants money now who can blame him he is a proven premiership boss and he wants to push on, we haven't got any end of so lets get someone in who has the hunger and passion Moyes used to have and who knows what might happen.

EDIT: money won't change his approach tactics by the way, thats his style of management.

Good point. Matteo was judged to be not good enough to manage West Brom and he's now gone and totally re-invigorated Chelsea and turned their season around.

 

[Number_25]

Li Tie could pass the ball like Beckham some days, but he was constantly injured.

FFS.

 

[Azzurri]

McCarthy
Di Santo
Diame
Moses
Caldwell

Were all great against Arsenal the other night, McCarthy has a bright future ahead of him and Martinez picked him up for next to nothing. It's also a lot more difficult to get players to come to a team like Wigan than a team like Everton, for obvious reasons.

Moyes' signings in the three seasons after he took over:

Yobo
Rodrigo
Richard Wright (£3.5m ffs)
Espen Baardsen
Li Tie
James McFadden
Marcus Bent
Nigel Martyn
Kevin Kilbane
Tim Cahill
Beattie
Plessis
John Ruddy
Simon Davies

Some good signings, but also some absolute shoite.

Di Santo's the ****test first choice forward in the entire league. He's absolute gash. Victor Moses, while decent, never passes the ball and Gary Caldwell gives penalties away like a paedo giving out sweets.

 

[The T-Dex]

I think Di Santo isn't to bad, Rodallega on the other hand.

 

[kenada_blue]

He certainly didn't spend close to all of it. And we'd qualified for the champions league. We got a big pay packet for that, by our standards. A lot of that money was earned on merit.

We never made much, if anything, from the champions league. We had a qualifyer...the money is in the group stages.

 

[davek]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...or-lack-of-positive-thinking-100252-30799383/

David Prentice breaks the habit of a lifetime and writes a decent article on Moyes' record.

 

[EFC Si]

I think Di Santo isn't to bad, Rodallega on the other hand.

He has an outrageous game to goal ratio. I think he's had about 2 in the last 30 or something.

 

[Khalekan]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...or-lack-of-positive-thinking-100252-30799383/

David Prentice breaks the habit of a lifetime and writes a decent article on Moyes' record.

Contrast the 10 years which preceded his arrival, to the frequent top six finishes, the regular European excursions, the three LMA Manager of the Year awards and the achievement of actually getting to Wembley semi-finals and finals.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...ive-thinking-100252-30799383/2/#ixzz1saQyc8KI

Contrast the 10 years which preceded his arrival, to the frequent top six finishes, the regular European excursions, the three LMA Manager of the Year awards and the achievement of actually getting to Wembley semi-finals and finals.


A couple of things.....we actually won silverware during the ten years predeeding Moyes's arrival and also chalked up several victories at Anfield.

And wualifying for Europe in thoes days was a lot harder than getting there now.....a fourth, fifth or sixth in the league wouldn't have got you near the UEFA Cup for most of that time.

Prebtice didn't go far eniugh, IMO.

I disagree with where he says "Moyes role has been the most scrutinised".

Among the fans, for sure......but very little in the press, particularly the national press which is still in thrall to the Moyes Delusion.

 

[RyanGordon]

Good read, lack of adventure for me. Not just Saturday, but in a lot of games.

 

[The T-Dex]

Di Santo has more than Rodellega this season, but only 3 more, played a few more games too, but imo Di Santo is a better player. Rodellega has gone of the boil and looks like he can't be bothered.

 

[davek]

Contrast the 10 years which preceded his arrival, to the frequent top six finishes, the regular European excursions, the three LMA Manager of the Year awards and the achievement of actually getting to Wembley semi-finals and finals.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...ive-thinking-100252-30799383/2/#ixzz1saQyc8KI

Contrast the 10 years which preceded his arrival, to the frequent top six finishes, the regular European excursions, the three LMA Manager of the Year awards and the achievement of actually getting to Wembley semi-finals and finals.


A couple of things.....we actually won silverware during the ten years predeeding Moyes's arrival and also chalked up several victories at Anfield.

And wualifying for Europe in thoes days was a lot harder than getting there now.....a fourth, fifth or sixth in the league wouldn't have got you near the UEFA Cup for most of that time.

Prebtice didn't go far eniugh, IMO.

I disagree with where he says "Moyes role has been the most scrutinised".

Among the fans, for sure......but very little in the press, particularly the national press which is still in thrall to the Moyes Delusion.

Agree. If he'd have said that what came before Moyes was unpredictability: highs and lows in equal measure; and that has to be compared to the solid certainty we've had since Moyes took over, then that would have been fair comment...and a fair question to ask the readers by way of a preference.

TBH, I'm amazed he even went as far as he did. It either means he's been tipped off something is afoot or, more likely, he feels the need to show how *in touch* he is with the mood on the street.