The EU deal

[daylightrobber]

Reminder to take brexit scaremongering by "economists" with a pinch of salt.

Nothing like a bit of context to back up your info. This data was from when exactly?

 

[daylightrobber]

Voting to remain is akin to a Turkey voting for Christmas.

Also, a vote to remain isn't a vote for the status quo. We hold little to no influence in the EU (and never have done). As more countries join, the more diluted our already small influence gets.

Europe is a mess economically, facing generational problems including the influx of African and Middle East immigrants, mass unemployment, a constantly stagnant single currency and the rise of extreme parties across the continent due to the total disregard for the views of the native people of Europe by Merkel and the unelected commissioners like Junker.

The EU GDP hasn't moved in 10 years, while every other continent on Earth has grown - some regions exponentially in that time. It is absolutely foolish to intrinsically bind ourselves to a failed project that accounts for a small percentage of the global population, especially in the modern world where it as as easy to do business with a company in New Zealand as it is to do business with France (actually, easier due to shared language and common law).

And you have the audacity to suggest it's Remain who are fear mongering! To suggest we have little or no influence in the EU is outright lies.

Furthermore to suggest that language is a barrier to trade is typical of the xenophobic undertones driving the Leave campaign. There's no place for it in the debate because it's just not relevant.

 

[Clint Planet]

Open revolt breaking out in the Tory party today. Calls for Dodgy Dave to go. His own MPs calling him a liar (like they haven't lied through their teeth to get out of Europe).

God, can you imagine post-Brexit Britain being ruined by Boris and Gove?

*shudders*

 

[Congen]

And you have the audacity to suggest it's Remain who are fear mongering! To suggest we have little or no influence in the EU is outright lies.

Furthermore to suggest that language is a barrier to trade is typical of the xenophobic undertones driving the Leave campaign. There's no place for it in the debate because it's just not relevant.

Seems to me people like yourself go out of your way to spot any hint of racism. I don't think the poster had any tone at all!

 

[daylightrobber]

Open revolt breaking out in the Tory party today. Calls for Dodgy Dave to go. His own MPs calling him a liar (like they haven't lied through their teeth to get out of Europe).

God, can you imagine post-Brexit Britain being ruined by Boris and Gove?

*shudders*

A reminder to us all that those who will be least affected are doing nothing more than playing games that will have huge impact on the rest of us.

 

[daylightrobber]

Seems to me people like yourself go out of your way to spot any hint of racism. I don't think the poster had any tone at all!

Your prerogative. It's fairly easy to spot in arguments that focus on language. Or for example finding nonsensical reasons for trading with countries that couldn't be any further away from us (& therefore ignoring the detrimental environmental impact) over our near neighbours. No need to go out of the way when it's staring you in the face.

 

[Cypher]

And you have the audacity to suggest it's Remain who are fear mongering! To suggest we have little or no influence in the EU is outright lies.

Furthermore to suggest that language is a barrier to trade is typical of the xenophobic undertones driving the Leave campaign. There's no place for it in the debate because it's just not relevant.

Could you please refrain from calling people you disagree with xenophobic. That kind of language is offensive and should have no place here.

If you think it is xenophobic. Then explain why his fears and points are unjustified and prejudiced. Don't just throw labels out there. The language barrier does make business more difficult. A lot of business is relationships and communication.

 

[Cypher]

Open revolt breaking out in the Tory party today. Calls for Dodgy Dave to go. His own MPs calling him a liar (like they haven't lied through their teeth to get out of Europe).

God, can you imagine post-Brexit Britain being ruined by Boris and Gove?

*shudders*

Why. If Britain leaves the EU the Tory party would go into melt down. It's the best chance Labour have of being elected.

 

[Clint Planet]

Why. If Britain leaves the EU the Tory party would go into melt down. It's the best chance Labour have of being elected.

Nah, there'd be a realignment of Eurosceptic Tories and UKIP to keep Labour out, especially given the situation in Scotland where Labour's support has collapsed.

 

[Clint Planet]

If you think it is xenophobic. Then explain why his fears and points are unjustified and prejudiced. Don't just throw labels out there. The language barrier does make business more difficult. A lot of business is relationships and communication.

The language "barrier," as we can plainly see, isn't that much of a barrier. To try to throw it up as some plausible reason for Brexit reeks of xenophobia.

 

[dandydan]

I went to a DiEM25 (Democracy in Europe Movement) rally in London on Saturday to see Yannis Varufakis, Owen Jones, Caroline Lucas and others speak, the basic message being that workers' rights are under threat from a Brexit, that "sovereignty" is a smoke and mirrors trick of the Brexiteers which misleadingly implies that ordinary people will somehow benefit from this regaining of "sovereignty," that the Leave campaign have lost the economic argument so are now resorting to the politics of fear and that the people of the UK will be better off staying in fighting to democratise the EU.

Reject the politics of fear and xenophobia, people. Embrace the politics of hope!

From the DiEM25 Manifesto:

We call on our fellow Europeans to join us forthwith to create DiEM25 and to fight together to democratise the European Union, to end the reduction of all political relations into relations of power masquerading as merely technical decisions; to subject the EU’s bureaucracy to the will of sovereign European peoples; to dismantle the habitual domination of corporate power over the will of citizens; and to re-politicise the rules that govern our single market and common currency.

We are inspired by a Europe of Reason, Liberty, Tolerance and Imagination made possible by comprehensive Transparency, real Solidarity and authentic Democracy. We aspire to:

• A Democratic Europe in which all political authority stems from Europe’s sovereign peoples
• A Transparent Europe where all decision-making takes place under the citizens’ scrutiny
• A United Europe whose citizens have as much in common across countries as within them
• A Realistic Europe that sets itself the task of radical, yet achievable, democratic reforms
• A Decentralised Europe that uses central power to maximise democracy locally
• A Pluralist Europe of regions, ethnicities, faiths, nations, languages and cultures
• An Egalitarian Europe that celebrates difference and ends all forms of discrimination
• A Cultured Europe that harnesses its peoples’ cultural diversity
• A Social Europe that recognises freedom from exploitation as a prerequisite for true liberty
• A Productive Europe that directs investment into a shared, green prosperity
• A Sustainable Europe that lives within the planet’s means
• An Ecological Europe engaged in genuine world-wide green transition
• A Creative Europe that releases the innovative powers of its citizens’ imagination
• A Technological Europe pressing new technologies in the service of solidarity
• A Historically-minded Europe that seeks a bright future without hiding from its past
• An Internationalist Europe that treats non-Europeans as ends-in-themselves
• A Peaceful Europe de-escalating tensions in its neighbourhood and beyond
• An Open Europe that is alive to ideas, people and inspiration from all over the world, recognising fences and borders as signs of weakness and sources of insecurity
• A Liberated Europe where privilege, prejudice, deprivation and the threat of violence wither, allowing Europeans to be born into fewer stereotypical roles, to enjoy even chances to develop their potential, and to be free to choose more of their partners in life, work and society.

Being in the EU really helped the workers in the fishing industry, and steel, and train builders. In fact any industry crippled by high energy costs thanks to the dumb carbon taxes imposed on us.
Do you have the figures for youth unemployment in Greece, Spain and Portugal by any chance?

 

[Cypher]

Nah, there'd be a realignment of Eurosceptic Tories and UKIP to keep Labour out, especially given the situation in Scotland where Labour's support has collapsed.

I think you could see a lot of political chaos which would probably be a good thing because politicians would then have to work to win votes.

At the moment there's too many people voting Labour or Conservative simply because "that's their side" when the reality is neither of these parties do a good job representing their interests.

 

[Clint Planet]

Being in the EU really helped the workers in the fishing industry, and steel, and train builders. In fact any industry crippled by high energy costs thanks to the dumb carbon taxes imposed on us.
Do you have the figures for youth unemployment in Greece, Spain and Portugal by any chance?

I think that the populations of Spain, Portugal and Greece are all quite heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, aren't they? (I could be wrong on that). If you think that a non-EU Tory-led Britain would have given two hoots about British industry, you're more deluded than I'd realised.

As for carbon tax, it's an attempt to deal with the coming cataclysmic climate change - something which will be absolutely impossible to coordinate if the EU fractures.

 

[Cypher]

The language "barrier," as we can plainly see, isn't that much of a barrier. To try to throw it up as some plausible reason for Brexit reeks of xenophobia.

He's not throwing it up as a reason for Brexit. He's saying that the in a global world it doesn't make sense to focus our trade on countries like France and exclude countries like New Zealand when they share the same language and similar laws. I work in a company that has to hire people specifically because they speak certain European languages which adds additional cost and can make the logistics difficult. The distance and time barrier probably offset that but his point was still right.

 

[dandydan]

I think that the populations of Spain, Portugal and Greece are all quite heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, aren't they? (I could be wrong on that). If you think that a non-EU Tory-led Britain would have given two hoots about British industry, you're more deluded than I'd realised.

As for carbon tax, it's an attempt to deal with the coming cataclysmic climate change - something which will be absolutely impossible to coordinate if the EU fractures.

If you think the EU gives a hoot about British industry then you are deluded.