The EU deal

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Clint Planet said:
I think that the populations of Spain, Portugal and Greece are all quite heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, aren't they? (I could be wrong on that). If you think that a non-EU Tory-led Britain would have given two hoots about British industry, you're more deluded than I'd realised.

As for carbon tax, it's an attempt to deal with the coming cataclysmic climate change - something which will be absolutely impossible to coordinate if the EU fractures.
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They want to stay in the EU because they know if they left their life savings would be wiped out and staying the EU allows the young to move to wealthier areas like Britain.

If you want to stop pollution then you have to look at the problems caused by the developing world. I'm not sure how implementing a carbon tax in Europe helps.
 

Clint Planet said:
Conservatives putting huge strain on public services, warn immigrants

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Immigrants working in the public sector have warned that the Conservatives are placing an intolerable strain on public services.

With junior doctors preparing for further strikes, and government funding cuts threatening vital services, immigrants insist the UK is being overrun by swarms of Tory cuts.

“Services are struggling to cope with floods of government demands to cut local authority spending,” insisted social worker Krisztina Ionescu.


“Housing is a real issue in many areas but landlords are being given priority treatment.

“I’m not against ideologies, I’m against uncontrolled ideologies.”

A government spokesperson reacted angrily to the claims and insisted the use of words like ‘swarm’ dehumanised Conservatives.

“We’re just doing what we have to do in order to ensure we have a much, much, much better life.”
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It's a referendum. It's not a vote for or against the Conservatives. Look who is leading the Remain campaign. Osborne and Cameron. Machiavelli would be proud of these manipulation tactics.
 
Clint Planet said:
I went to a DiEM25 (Democracy in Europe Movement) rally in London on Saturday to see Yannis Varufakis, Owen Jones, Caroline Lucas and others speak, the basic message being that workers' rights are under threat from a Brexit, that "sovereignty" is a smoke and mirrors trick of the Brexiteers which misleadingly implies that ordinary people will somehow benefit from this regaining of "sovereignty," that the Leave campaign have lost the economic argument so are now resorting to the politics of fear and that the people of the UK will be better off staying in fighting to democratise the EU.

Reject the politics of fear and xenophobia, people. Embrace the politics of hope!

From the DiEM25 Manifesto:

We call on our fellow Europeans to join us forthwith to create DiEM25 and to fight together to democratise the European Union, to end the reduction of all political relations into relations of power masquerading as merely technical decisions; to subject the EU’s bureaucracy to the will of sovereign European peoples; to dismantle the habitual domination of corporate power over the will of citizens; and to re-politicise the rules that govern our single market and common currency.

We are inspired by a Europe of Reason, Liberty, Tolerance and Imagination made possible by comprehensive Transparency, real Solidarity and authentic Democracy. We aspire to:

  • A Democratic Europe in which all political authority stems from Europe’s sovereign peoples
  • A Transparent Europe where all decision-making takes place under the citizens’ scrutiny
  • A United Europe whose citizens have as much in common across countries as within them
  • A Realistic Europe that sets itself the task of radical, yet achievable, democratic reforms
  • A Decentralised Europe that uses central power to maximise democracy locally
  • A Pluralist Europe of regions, ethnicities, faiths, nations, languages and cultures
  • An Egalitarian Europe that celebrates difference and ends all forms of discrimination
  • A Cultured Europe that harnesses its peoples’ cultural diversity
  • A Social Europe that recognises freedom from exploitation as a prerequisite for true liberty
  • A Productive Europe that directs investment into a shared, green prosperity
  • A Sustainable Europe that lives within the planet’s means
  • An Ecological Europe engaged in genuine world-wide green transition
  • A Creative Europe that releases the innovative powers of its citizens’ imagination
  • A Technological Europe pressing new technologies in the service of solidarity
  • A Historically-minded Europe that seeks a bright future without hiding from its past
  • An Internationalist Europe that treats non-Europeans as ends-in-themselves
  • A Peaceful Europe de-escalating tensions in its neighbourhood and beyond
  • An Open Europe that is alive to ideas, people and inspiration from all over the world, recognising fences and borders as signs of weakness and sources of insecurity
  • A Liberated Europe where privilege, prejudice, deprivation and the threat of violence wither, allowing Europeans to be born into fewer stereotypical roles, to enjoy even chances to develop their potential, and to be free to choose more of their partners in life, work and society.
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It sounds lovely doesn't it. It'll be even better when Albania and Turkey join.....Yannis Varufakis wants Britain to stay in because he knows that there is not a cat in hells chance of democracy without us, oh and he likes our financial contribution. Europe can do all of the above if it really wants to without the UK being part of the club, and the UK can do the above if it wants, outside of what will be a complete dogs dinner.......
 
peteblue said:
It sounds lovely doesn't it. It'll be even better when Albania and Turkey join.....Yannis Varufakis wants Britain to stay in because he knows that there is not a cat in hells chance of democracy without us, oh and he likes our financial contribution. Europe can do all of the above if it really wants to without the UK being part of the club, and the UK can do the above if it wants, outside of what will be a complete dogs dinner.......
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Poor poor deluded fools. That's going to work about as well as when Varufakis negotiated for Greece and used his game theory tactics. :oops:

The whole point of the EU is so the people would never have that kind of power.

Owen Jones, Yannis Varufakis, Caroline Lucas - A child, a moron and a green party MP.
 
peteblue said:
It sounds lovely doesn't it. It'll be even better when Albania and Turkey join.....Yannis Varufakis wants Britain to stay in because he knows that there is not a cat in hells chance of democracy without us, oh and he likes our financial contribution. Europe can do all of the above if it really wants to without the UK being part of the club, and the UK can do the above if it wants, outside of what will be a complete dogs dinner.......
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Which is when? More scare tactics utilising fear of peoples. It really is a shocking campaign the Brexiters camp are running.
 

If I had a vote I'd vote out, my only connection to it is it's on my birthday...let those Euros stew in their own juices...voted in in 73(?) turned out not to be what they said it was on the tin
 

So the Channel looks like becoming another Mediterranean disaster zone.
All very sad, but thanks to Merkel, the EU leader, for inviting even more into Europe.
 
daylightrobber said:
Not imminently, no. There is no suggestion of it, apart from from the Leave campaign of course.
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I'm not sure what you are saying. I'm I right in saying you do think they are going to join but not immediately? I don't think anyone is suggesting that they will join immediately but this referendum will decide the EU question one way or another for another 50 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

"Croatia and Turkey started accession talks on 3 October 2005. Croatia joined on 1 July 2013. Turkey could complete negotiations in 10-15 years, but progress has been very slow, as the EU is divided over whether Turkey should join at all."

The refugee deal has also given visa free travel to the turks so people worried about immigration are also justifiably worried about that as well.
 

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