The EU deal

[Clint Planet]

£2bn per year for a net increase of 184,000 people (Year on year) Not much of a contribution, is it?

Not much of a drain, either, is it?

And the British aren't? You're not? I'm not? Anyone on here from the UK isn't?

Funnily enough, you're not making any sense at all, here.

 

[peteblue]

Article 50 of The Treaty of the European Union states that it does.

It says nothing of the sort......


1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

 

[Hibbertinho]

Their electorate and corporate leaders wouldn't allow them to play politics in that way.

There's also plenty of German politicians that think Britain is more trouble than it's worth and would be glad to see the back of us.

Just attempting to reconcile how that bit in bold supports your stance... sorry that I'm so slow. I'll take that massive unsupported assertion in the first line as gospel though, thanks.

Well he has a point. Only just over a 100 years ago Britain was the largest Empire the world has ever seen.

Do you think it would be good if we went back to those days, mate?

 

[peteblue]

Just attempting to reconcile how that bit in bold supports your stance... sorry that I'm so slow. I'll take that massive unsupported assertion in the first line as gospel though, thanks.



Do you think it would be good if we went back to those days, mate?

There are no thoughts of back to the days of Empire. But like it or not, we still are the 5th biggest economy in the world. However the remain group would like us to believe that we are some small nondescript country who cannot stand on it's own two feet, which is patently nonsense........

 

[peteblue]

Anyone who exports into the European market who will no longer be able to compete on price against those based in the EU.

Name 3.......

 

[peteblue]

Name 3.......

I tell you what just name 1 major business that would admit to it, just 1........

Meanwhile the other 4.9M businesses in the UK will see no difference........

 

[daylightrobber]

It says nothing of the sort......


1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

Paragraph 3.

 

[Cypher]

Just attempting to reconcile how that bit in bold supports your stance... sorry that I'm so slow. I'll take that massive unsupported assertion in the first line as gospel though, thanks.



Do you think it would be good if we went back to those days, mate?

They wouldn't want it to drag on. They would prefer if Brexit was as painless for both sides as possible. The only people who would want it to drag on are the people who think that would force Britain to change it's mind.

 

[Cypher]

Paragraph 3.

"unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

That's what would happen. They would just extend the two years until a deal can be done.

 

[peteblue]

Paragraph 3.

Oh dear. Again, you seem to think that what the EU says is absolute. Tariffs, if applied extend in both directions. Paragraph 3 sets out a timescale to negotiate appropriate arrangements. Why do you believe it's always the EU wins and the UK loses......

 

[peteblue]

They wouldn't want it to drag on. They would prefer if Brexit was as painless for both sides as possible. The only people who would want it to drag on are the people who think that would force Britain to change it's mind.

There would no doubt be a few who would wish to teach the Brits a lesson and put out a message to the rest of the EU that you can't leave. But as Boris has said, if it's that sort of club, why be a member.......

 

[daylightrobber]

"unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

That's what would happen. They would just extend the two years until a deal can be done.

All of a sudden you are placing your hopes on the very thing you keep trying to tell us only works in self interest. There will be european manufacturers lobbying their respective governments as they will be ready to step and plug the gaps.

 

[Cypher]

All of a sudden you are placing your hopes on the very thing you keep trying to tell us only works in self interest. There will be european manufacturers lobbying their respective governments as they will be ready to step and plug the gaps.

Because the EU does work for the self interests of it's corporations over all else. Normally that's something I have a problem with but in this case it will also mean there won't be this game of tariff chicken that you think will happen.

 

[peteblue]

All of a sudden you are placing your hopes on the very thing you keep trying to tell us only works in self interest. There will be european manufacturers lobbying their respective governments as they will be ready to step and plug the gaps.

Yet if the Armageddon that you predict comes our way, then the £ will fall, make exporting easier and put a brake on imports. So the gaps, which will be bigger in the UK than the EU, will be filled by our own companies, win-win really......

 

[Hibbertinho]

There are no thoughts of back to the days of Empire. But like it or not, we still are the 5th biggest economy in the world. However the remain group would like us to believe that we are some small nondescript country who cannot stand on it's own two feet, which is patently nonsense........

Do they, aye? Everyone in the Bremain group? That's a shame.

I was more concerned with the 'simple' question of whether we would ultimately be better off or not.

"unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

That's what would happen. They would just extend the two years until a deal can be done.

Interest has been signalled in a second referendum on whether to accept the new terms in the case of Brexit, or to renege on the outcome of the first referendum. This has potential for entering a legal no-man's land with respect to Article 50 - it is unclear on how to withdraw from Brexit once it has been invoked.

Any of the the 27 can block the extension. In which case - we take the terms of the agreement which was drafted whilst we were partly not in the room for, or reject the deal in the hope of holding out for better terms (where have we seen that before?)... in this case we would either get the more favourable renegotiated terms that we've stuck our neck out for, or we would leave with no free-trade agreement...

Article 50 of The Treaty of the European Union states that it does.

...in which case, @daylightrobber's suggestion would become a reality.