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The EU deal

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edge said:
I was thinking It might be May or possibly a coalition government if they implode
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May or possibly? They're the same thing, aren't they? :p

Not beyond that slimy rodent farron cosying up to them, although having said that - with all them libdem seats that the tories took off them in the SW that are under investigation...
 

edge said:
Simple the tories tamper with are rights we vote them out.
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Mate, you've got that johnson buffoon, add to him the hard right poor-haters grayskulling and dummkopf-schmitt. Megalomaniacs every one.

Of course they'll tamper with our rights. They can't help themselves. That's why boris bought water cannon when he was mayor against May telling him they'll be illegalto use.

Grayling bolloxing up the courts with the £500 costs that he steamrollered through.

If they have time for it, they'll cause riots.

They'll think they're untouchable...We'll see. If they do they'll be out long before the next election.
 
Whistlin' Dixie said:
I was worried about this - But how long do you reckon they'd last? Boris won't get away with the shady dealings he did when Mayor of londinium (Or before - when he promised to give the name of a reporter to another toff what wanted him done in)

IDS was booted out of the tory leadership in record time (Betsygate) He's widely regarded as worse than useless by a fair few in the party, and whatever he has/had on cameron won't be of any use to him anymore

Grayling has bolloxed up the legal system something wicked in such a short time.

Gove is despised by the teachers (Although in fairness as justice minister, he's got to clear grayling's sh1t up at the MoJ)

I tells ya, they're out next election - maybe before, if the old bill find out the tories have fiddled their expenses. ;)
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.....regardless of your political pursuasion it's a concern that there is currently no viable opposition in this country. I have a real fear that with further boundary changes the majority will only increase and the alternatives are going to be Governments in various shades of Blue. That's not healthy for balance of power.
 
tsubaki said:
Well, for a start you have Hitler's statement in January 1939 to the Czech foreign minister that "Our Jews will be destroyed", and a statement nine days after that where he said that "if war came, the end result would be... the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe". Then you have what they did in Poland during 1939, or what large parts of the party did in 1938 during Kristallnacht. You also have the example of the planning for Barbarossa, where Heydrich made sure that the rear areas were under his control and made it very clear to the Einsatzgruppen leaders in early 1941 of the "heavy tasks" that would be required of them. Or you have the actual attempts at expulsion, upon which minute amounts of resources were spent compared to what was being spent on the camp system. Then you have the open killing of the mentally ill and other undesirables during the T4 campaigns. Most telling of all though, you have the fact that - once the decision for genocide was officially reached - they were able to put it into effect very quickly, especially given all the other pressures that the state was under at the time.

You are right that some people supported / claimed to support an alternative policy, but I think its telling that the one policy that emerged in the end was the one that had most of the money spent on it beforehand, and the one for which an awful lot of the documentary evidence was carefully (but not completely) removed.
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I never said it wasn't an option. Of course it was hence the letter since it was part of the discussion. I said it wasn't the only option or even the preferred option and none of what you said says otherwise. Things like the annihilation of the Jewish race or the purge in Europe etc could simply be referring to the act of deportation.

What do you think the letter was. Simply just propaganda for people to read decades after?

If you actually go back what I said it was debatable. The facts aren't clear enough one way or the other. Ok we have both have had our say. Let's just leave it there.
 
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Durham Toffee said:
Once again, I feel quite frustrated by Corbyn. Being a staunch Labour lad, I was quite pleased and thoroughly optimistic during his appointment last year.

Subsequently, he has left me feeling terrifically underwhelmed on more than one occasion thus far and I'm quite sure - if he remains - we'll not see a proper Labour opposition during the next General Election. He has remained passive on various issues wherein I believe he should express some opinion, but instead he fades into the wallpaper and provides little assurance that he has the spine or the aptitude to take on the bigger issues...
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He has been muzzled by the party machine. If I'm honest I think he is still anti-EU.
 
Eggs said:
....I have a real fear that the rights of individuals will be severely relaxed if Brexit is successful because of the individuals who will surely lead a more right wing government. They hold a majority and Boris is the type they will follow over a cliff. Keeping the generic safety net of Europe is a big factor for me.
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Even if the unlikely event Boris does take over the Tory party would be so deeply divided that it wouldn't be an effective government. Certainly not one that could sweep through a load of right wing changes. The reason also why it's unlikely is because the remain camp have said they want to keep Cameron because he is the person who has the best relationships with the leaders of the EU to negotiate a good deal.

Leaving would also effectively kill the support for the UKIP which would mean all those disenfranchised voters may be willing to come back to Labour. If I was running Labour I would be planning for the aftermath and not alienating a large section of their traditional base.
 
Eggs said:
.....regardless of your political pursuasion it's a concern that there is currently no viable opposition in this country. I have a real fear that with further boundary changes the majority will only increase and the alternatives are going to be Governments in various shades of Blue. That's not healthy for balance of power.
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That's not how democracy works. It wasn't that long ago that the Tories were a shambles and Labour were completely dominant.

The temporary result of who is in power after the referendum is small beer compared to who will be in power for the next 50-100 years. i.e. career politicians enacting laws in the interests of multinational corporations with little to no democratic oversight.
 

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