The EU deal

[SNova]

Marine Le Pen Surges in French Polls

Front National leader Marine Le Pen has double the polling numbers of current president François Hollande ahead of the 2017 French presidential election.

It is less than a year until the French public will vote on the highest office in the country, and new polls suggest that the current president François Hollande could be in serious trouble.

A survey published by Le Monde on Thursday shows the French president polling at 14 per cent while likely Republican candidate and former president Nicolas Sarkozy scored 21 per cent. The clear winner of the poll was anti-mass migration Front National party leader Marine Le Pen who was favoured by 28 per cent of those surveyed.

The survey, which began in November and will be conducted until just before the presidential elections in June 2017, is based on a large sample of 19,455 people who are asked their opinion on multiple occasions. These results come from the fourth time the participants have been surveyed on their political preference over the period of 12 to 22 May.

The biggest loser in the poll is Mr. Hollande whose disapproval rating rose among the group surveyed. The percentage of those totally dissatisfied with the Socialist leader have gone from 43 per cent in March to 53 per cent. The level of satisfaction with Mr. Hollande, on a scale of 1 to 10, now rests at 2.1.

The recent 100 year anniversary of the World War One Battle of Verdun “art performance” last Sunday may also have also affected Mr. Hollande’s popularity as many, including Marine Le Pen, denounced it as “indecent”.

Ms. Le Pen, with 28 per cent, is up one percentage point from the last round. If the polling numbers remain steady going into 2017, the FN leader is guaranteed a place in the second round of the French presidential elections.

The French presidential election system is much like the Austrian system. The Austrian presidential election this year saw anti-mass migration Freedom Party of Austria (FPÖ) candidate Norbert Hofer win 36.4 per cent of the vote in the first round, but lose by a mere 31,000 votes in the second round to former Green Party leader Alexander Van der Bellen.

Many who support the populist candidate worry that although she may win the first round of the presidential election she will lose the second round as other parties unite to vote against her. Those fears may be increased after European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker announced that the bloc would do all in its power, including economic sanctions, to ensure no anti-mass migration party would ever come to power in Europe


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At least the French might be able to get out of the EU, if we are unable to. Apparently the Dutch want out too.

 

[Cypher]

"Those fears may be increased after European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker announced that the bloc would do all in its power, including economic sanctions, to ensure no anti-mass migration party would ever come to power in Europe"

Nice to see how the EU respects the democratic will of the people. This is all going to end badly.

 

[Clint Planet]

If you are asking me what my own personal layman's view is then I think socio-economic facts play a role but they don't explain everything. e.g. Chinese and Indian people from the same class backgrounds don't commit the same levels of crime. It probably has a large cultural factor too.

As I said I have no idea why it is the fact. I just don't know enough about the issue. It's not something that effects me but what I stated was that it was the fact and it explains why the police use racial profiling. The underlying reason for why the statistics are like that doesn't change that argument.

You on the other hand dismiss it as a reason with no evidence. It's a religious argument which leads to faulty logic and bad decisions.

I find it interesting that you are accusing me of having faulty logic and yet you are the one who will not dismiss out of hand the idea that some races are more predisposed to criminality than others. Do you really think that it is a religious position to dismiss such an outrageous notion? I can see what are you trying to do - take the position that nothing can be dismissed until it has been disproven – but I think that you are treading on very dangerous ground. I would argue that only racists would not dismiss the idea out of hand straight away so frankly it does not reflect on you very well and I think you need to rethink that one. Basically, I think you found yourself in a corner and panicked by not conceding my point straight away.

I think that any intelligent person would admit that "facts" themselves do not exist in a vacuum. They can be used as weapons against people or to justify notions or ideas or theories which are absolutely incorrect. Sadly, it has always seemed to me that those on the right are very quick to use so-called facts to their advantage but are very slow to ever actually ask why those facts are what they are unless it directly suits their agenda.

We all know that stating that some races commit more crimes than others tacitly suggests that there is something wrong with or bad about those races. To say that "I was only stating a fact" is frankly disingenuous. You've let yourself down these last few pages.

 

[SNova]

-----

The fact that the unelected in the EU believe they should dictate to the elected tells us all we need to know. Tyrannical. Vote leave.

 

[atrottel]

The fact that the unelected in the EU believe they should dictate to the elected tells us all we need to know. Tyrannical. Vote leave.

Unlike most of you discussing this, I don't have a vote (despite the fact that I was originally promised one and have unrestricted right of residence in the UK, was born there to British parents, grew up there, paid full NI contributions and am eligible for a British pension and hold a full British passport and, practically speaking, a 'Leave' vote will have more effect on me than anyone else). Undemocratic EU? Don't make me spit.

 

[Congen]

I'm concerned about the mass movement of people into europe even more so that this year will apparently make last years seem like a mere trickle. I know some are genuine but why give carte Blanche and let them storm into , become citizens and then move to the uk because of free movement... Seems to me only one country is dictating what the rest of Europe should do. I've been abroad enough to see how lovely all the people around Eu countries are, but to be honest they are letting some bad eggs in because they have a utopian outlook. Don't see the harm in us having controls on our borders to assess people who want to come here, rather than be told by some other countries tough we've allowed them in so you have no choice. Am I an xenophobe for thinking like that?

 

[Cypher]

I find it interesting that you are accusing me of having faulty logic and yet you are the one who will not dismiss out of hand the idea that some races are more predisposed to criminality than others. Do you really think that it is a religious position to dismiss such an outrageous notion? I can see what are you trying to do - take the position that nothing can be dismissed until it has been disproven – but I think that you are treading on very dangerous ground. I would argue that only racists would not dismiss the idea out of hand straight away so frankly it does not reflect on you very well and I think you need to rethink that one. Basically, I think you found yourself in a corner and panicked by not conceding my point straight away.

I think that any intelligent person would admit that "facts" themselves do not exist in a vacuum. They can be used as weapons against people or to justify notions or ideas or theories which are absolutely incorrect. Sadly, it has always seemed to me that those on the right are very quick to use so-called facts to their advantage but are very slow to ever actually ask why those facts are what they are unless it directly suits their agenda.

We all know that stating that some races commit more crimes than others tacitly suggests that there is something wrong with or bad about those races. To say that "I was only stating a fact" is frankly disingenuous. You've let yourself down these last few pages.

I think that our genetics play some role in everything from our personality to intelligence to culture etc You would like it to be mere learned behaviour. The idea that we are tabula rasa. A blank slate but I fear we aren't.

You think it's a racist view to think all races aren't the same. That it's a merely superficial difference. I can't argue with that if that's your definition of racist but it's also in my opinion unscientific and wrong.

It's that kind of thinking that leads to thinking importing a load of non-Europeans into Europe will simply turn them into Europeans. I have grave doubts this is what will happen. I hope you are right because that's the path we are on but I fear you aren't.

Now that's speaking at a group level not at an individual level.

 

[SNova]

Unlike most of you discussing this, I don't have a vote (despite the fact that I was originally promised one and have unrestricted right of residence in the UK, was born there to British parents, grew up there, paid full NI contributions and am eligible for a British pension and hold a full British passport and, practically speaking, a 'Leave' vote will have more effect on me than anyone else). Undemocratic EU? Don't make me spit.

Even the remain camp admit that the EU is undemocratic. You're right though the EU is not just undemocratic it's anti democratic.

Again, we're back to the irrating argument that if you're against one your for the other. I want the UK to be more democratic too.

I'm concerned about the mass movement of people into europe even more so that this year will apparently make last years seem like a mere trickle. I know some are genuine but why give carte Blanche and let them storm into , become citizens and then move to the uk because of free movement... Seems to me only one country is dictating what the rest of Europe should do. I've been abroad enough to see how lovely all the people around Eu countries are, but to be honest they are letting some bad eggs in because they have a utopian outlook. Don't see the harm in us having controls on our borders to assess people who want to come here, rather than be told by some other countries tough we've allowed them in so you have no choice. Am I an xenophobe for thinking like that?

I believe the only reason we haven't been forced to accept a quota of migrants is because we're having the referendum. If we vote to remain I fear that we'll be forced to accept quotas.

 

[daylightrobber]

I'm concerned about the mass movement of people into europe even more so that this year will apparently make last years seem like a mere trickle. I know some are genuine but why give carte Blanche and let them storm into , become citizens and then move to the uk because of free movement... Seems to me only one country is dictating what the rest of Europe should do. I've been abroad enough to see how lovely all the people around Eu countries are, but to be honest they are letting some bad eggs in because they have a utopian outlook. Don't see the harm in us having controls on our borders to assess people who want to come here, rather than be told by some other countries tough we've allowed them in so you have no choice. Am I an xenophobe for thinking like that?

How many are becoming EU citizens?

 

[Congen]

How many are becoming EU citizens?

In Sweden and Germany so far is it over 400'000? Not sure..

 

[daylightrobber]

Unlike most of you discussing this, I don't have a vote (despite the fact that I was originally promised one and have unrestricted right of residence in the UK, was born there to British parents, grew up there, paid full NI contributions and am eligible for a British pension and hold a full British passport and, practically speaking, a 'Leave' vote will have more effect on me than anyone else). Undemocratic EU? Don't make me spit.

My brother is in the same boat. Has been living in Germany for the last 20 odd years. Bang out of order that you have no say.

 

[Congen]

How many are becoming EU citizens?

Aren't you concerned about what's happening?

 

[daylightrobber]

In Sweden and Germany so far is it over 400'000? Not sure..

Over what timescale?

Acquiring German citizenship via naturalisation is conditional on eight years of legal residence, although this is shorter for spouses of German nationals. It also requires oral and written German language skills, a clean criminal record and a commitment to respecting the German constitution. In general, those applying for naturalisation must also give up their foreign nationality.

In Sweden the rules are pretty much the same over 5 years, I believe.

Now of course migrants could be granted long term resident status without becoming nationals. However, the UK, along with Ireland and Denmark, are exempt from the directive to allow them free movement. The UK does not have to allow non-EU nationals who are long-term residents of other member state into the UK if it does not want to. If it does allow them entry to the UK it is on the same basis as other non-EU nationals, i.e. meeting any relevant skills and income criteria. Therefore, the UK already has additional controls over immigration policy compared to other EU member states.

 

[daylightrobber]

Aren't you concerned about what's happening?

No.

Edit: Actually yes. People are becoming afraid of other people. Lies are spread, scapegoats made. Society is crumbling all around us. Not the world I want my kids to grow up in.

 

[Joey66]

After so many years them all!