The EU deal

[Tubey]

So your saying it's just £12,410,000,000 a year then........

£12.4 to £12.9bn approx.

The actual amount we pay in is approx £6.4 to £6.5bn a year, after rebates, subsidies and grants.

Now your turn mate.

 

[peteblue]

Also, "safer" isn't an issue either. It's a red herring. In or out of the EU, we'd be dragged into a conflict if one occurred. Security is a complete non-issue.

The referendum at its' core is about two serious things - economics and immigration. That's it.

There was a big difference between being dragged into WW1 where it was oh what a lovely war, or WW2 which we originally fought as a phoney war. Being dragged into Nuclear Armageddon because Angela Merkel wants to bring the Ukraine into the EU is something that both we and the USA might just say leave us out. The EU does not help security it increases our risk.

Economics and Immigration are indeed what it's really about though. Obviously the Immigration issue means vote Leave, neither side has won the economic argument yet.......

 

[edge]

we pay in about 8 billion more than we get out on last years figure.
the total figure for running the government in the UK next year is around £771 billion
,play with those for a bit got to do a bit of work for a few hours.

 

[peteblue]

£12.4 to £12.9bn approx.

The actual amount we pay in is approx £6.4 to £6.5bn a year, after rebates, subsidies and grants.

Now your turn mate.

You just repeated my figures.....so you are saying that we only pay in, net, £6,500,000,000......what do think we could do with that sort of money.........

 

[Tigger]

I would take a slight hit on the economy to slow down immigration thanks.

 

[Tubey]

There was a big difference between being dragged into WW1 where it was oh what a lovely war, or WW2 which we originally fought as a phoney war. Being dragged into Nuclear Armageddon because Angela Merkel wants to bring the Ukraine into the EU is something that both we and the USA might just say leave us out. The EU does not help security it increases our risk.

Economics and Immigration are indeed what it's really about though. Obviously the Immigration issue means vote Leave, neither side has won the economic argument yet.......

Both of which occurred before the EU existed, and there hasn't been a global conflict while it has existed.

Saying the EU encourages a nuclear armageddon is just stupidity. I have no idea why people say these kinds of things - it doesn't enhance your argument; it destroys it.

 

[Tubey]

You just repeated my figures.....so you are saying that we only pay in, net, £6,500,000,000......what do think we could do with that sort of money.........

I'm not saying it; we do. They are publicly available figures.

What would we do with that? Well, it wouldn't cover the economic loss from leaving the biggest economic union in the world for starters, so all it would do would slightly soften that blow each year. We'd be significantly worse off than that £6.5bn each year outside the EU.

But "take back control", "them foreigners" etc. etc.

 

[peteblue]

The immediate impact of leaving the EU isn't an issue for me. Sure, recession or whatever, don't really care, it's not long term and that shouldn't be a reason against leaving. Again, another area Cameron has had a shocker in - it's a stupid point to make.

What is important is the long term. There is a big, big issue with trade agreements, which will take a long time to negotiate and in that period we will certainly lose our standing economically in the world.

The Leave campaign have an obvious paradox that Cameron and co. simply haven't exploited - we are the world's 4th biggest economy, and we've done that IN the EU, so what exactly is the economic problem in staying?

Answer - there simply isn't one. It isn't foreseeable that the UK can do any better outside it economically, and that's why Leave isn't focussing on it, because they know that to be the case. That's why you see no economic plan, and just a load of "Take Back Control" jargons.

Those trade agreements are already in place. As part of the Eu we signed, as a sovereign nation, to trade with whoever, these are legal from an individual country perspective. The only negotiations we need to do is our exit negotiations with the EU and even though they may be a bit miffed, it is their interest to do this to all our benefit......

 

[peteblue]

I'm not saying it; we do. They are publicly available figures.

What would we do with that? Well, it wouldn't cover the economic loss from leaving the biggest economic union in the world for starters, so all it would do would slightly soften that blow each year. We'd be significantly worse off than that £6.5bn each year outside the EU.

But "take back control", "them foreigners" etc. etc.

You seem to want the debate to move to "them foreigners"...... But we have done all that stuff ad nauseam.....

Cut free from a 28 nation negotiating committee we will be free to trade with who we wish. The Eu is a failing economy with whom we have a negative trading gap, and the rest of the world, with whom we have excellent political, cultural and historical links will come back into play. The EEC was right for us when we joined the other 6 countries. We really do not need to be tied to a basket case of 27 inward looking nations........

 

[peteblue]

Both of which occurred before the EU existed, and there hasn't been a global conflict while it has existed.

Saying the EU encourages a nuclear armageddon is just stupidity. I have no idea why people say these kinds of things - it doesn't enhance your argument; it destroys it.

Nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with NATO, especially the USA, UK and France.....

It is not stupid that the EU will encourage conflict, it doesn't act as a single country and it is bordered by a loose canon who has Nuclear capability......which bit do you not understand......

 

[daylightrobber]

Those trade agreements are already in place. As part of the Eu we signed, as a sovereign nation, to trade with whoever, these are legal from an individual country perspective. The only negotiations we need to do is our exit negotiations with the EU and even though they may be a bit miffed, it is their interest to do this to all our benefit......

It is their interest to do this all to the benefit first and foremost of those who remain.

 

[peteblue]

It is their interest to do this all to the benefit first and foremost of those who remain.

It is in the interest for those who remain to trade with the UK........

 

[daylightrobber]

You seem to want the debate to move to "them foreigners"...... But we have done all that stuff ad nauseam.....

Cut free from a 28 nation negotiating committee we will be free to trade with who we wish. The Eu is a failing economy with whom we have a negative trading gap, and the rest of the world, with whom we have excellent political, cultural and historical links will come back into play. The EEC was right for us when we joined the other 6 countries. We really do not need to be tied to a basket case of 27 inward looking nations........

Who together trade with not only themselves, but the rest of the world too. As a collective, looking out for each other. As opposed to the UK who some solely want to look out for ourselves. Who's inward?

 

[daylightrobber]

It is in the interest for those who remain to trade with the UK........

No denying. But to think that it is a foregone conclusion negotiations will be over quickly and favourably to us, without any other EU country wanting to have 1st dibs on some of our market is ridiculous.

 

[peteblue]

Who together trade with not only themselves, but the rest of the world too. As a collective, looking out for each other. As opposed to the UK who some solely want to look out for ourselves. Who's inward?

The Uk has never been inward looking, we have always traded with the world. The EU does not trade as a collective, it negotiates as a collective then individual countries trade with whoever they did a deal with. They don't look out for each other as you suggest, they look out for themselves, just as they do when trading internally to the EU.......