The EU deal

[Clint Planet]

Institutional or unconscious racism is just the lefts version of original sin.

Did you get from The UKIP Book of Empty Platitudes, 2016?

 

[Cypher]

No, 'opinion' has to be based on some sort of possible fact. Your 'opinion' has absolutely no grounding in reality. There is no prospect whatsoever of a European superstate, so when you typed that sentence, you were being over-dramatic to try and make a point, and it backfired.

what are you on about. we have devolved parliaments and council elections too but westminster is above. no different to brussels. ofcourse its a superstate.

 

[Cypher]

I bet you look forward to the episode when they do away with all the democratically elected heads of government, so they can start on the path to world domination.

starting with those they disagree with. wait thats exactly what they said they would do.

 

[Cypher]

Not if the EU have any concerns about further break aways with members insisting on the treaty being binding.

if they are seen to try and force us to stay that might also cause that.

 

[Cypher]

He'd get ripped to shreds by farage or milo! He also blocks anyone who challenges his views on Twitter.

milo?

 

[Clint Planet]

 

[Seathestars]

Both of which occurred before the EU existed, and there hasn't been a global conflict while it h

Mad that everyone voting leave is a massive racist isn't it?!

It makes me smile (in a sad way) when I see the leave campaign accused of racism.
As it happens I work in Africa and see the poverty that these people endure.

Why are people in the EU allowed to come to the UK.
Why can't these African people I work with come here.
Are the people of the EU better people than Africans.

The simple answer is no, they are not. If the remain party want to preach racism and the ill's of racism then treat everyone the same.
Treat Africans exactly the same way as we treat everyone in the EU, either allow them to come or make some kind of system which is fair to all, regardless of how lucky you were to be born where you were born.

If you want to come to the UK then you add something to this great Country, regardless of if you won the post code lottery when you were born.
The EU is one of the most racist organisations in the world.

 

[dandydan]

milo?

milo yiannopoulos. Currently causing mass triggering at American universities.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

Allow me to rephrase. According to the head of the Leave campaign, there could be no guarantee that that action of leaving the EU wouldn't put UK jobs at risk.

He would be foolish to make himself a hostage to fortune by saying any different. No-one has a crystal ball to enable them to see what the future holds regardless of whether we remain or leave.

 

[daylightrobber]

It makes me smile (in a sad way) when I see the leave campaign accused of racism.
As it happens I work in Africa and see the poverty that these people endure.

Why are people in the EU allowed to come to the UK.
Why can't these African people I work with come here.
Are the people of the EU better people than Africans.

The simple answer is no, they are not. If the remain party want to preach racism and the ill's of racism then treat everyone the same.
Treat Africans exactly the same way as we treat everyone in the EU, either allow them to come or make some kind of system which is fair to all, regardless of how lucky you were to be born where you were born.

If you want to come to the UK then you add something to this great Country, regardless of if you won the post code lottery when you were born.
The EU is one of the most racist organisations in the world.

On one hand I agree with you. Why can't the people in Africa come here? We're all human and we all deserve a fair crack.

On the other hand, the people of Africa and the Middle East are the ones we're being conditioned to be afraid of by the likes of UKIP. (Along with Eastern Europeans of course.) They're the ones used in the promotional videos for Leave. Not EU migrants, which is meant to be the issue in the In/out debate. We see the most sensationalist bullocks of illegal migrants scaling walls en masse and are expected to believe that's what's happening here, ignoring the fact we have miles and miles of sea surrounding us. Our own little moat. There are some in the Out campaign arguing, for fair access for all, irrespective of nationality, who have absolutely no desire to allow anyone in from further flung places, and who like Donald Trump would exclude based on religion. It is simply a convenient argument for them that we have free movement of people within the EU.

There are then those who cite being open to the commonwealth as preferential to the EU, without a hint of irony that it has way more than the 500m citizens the EU has. Of course those people only really want immigration from Australia, NZ and Canada.

Unfortunately, none of these countries have reciprocal agreements with us. Nor do they allow us to simply move in and set up business on their shores or buy property so that we can retire there. There is nothing racist about having agreements in place that work for the parties involved in those agreements, even if it does exclude other nationalities. If we leave, we will still pick and choose who to trade with, which nations will require different types of visas to travel. Is that not racist too? Of course it isn't, its simply agreed terms.

Could there be fairer systems? Quite possibly, but don't be fooled. The system works both ways. Leaving the EU will reduce the opportunities of UK citizens to live, work, study and live abroad. Our access to culture, education and the technical/innovative collaborations in industry, science and medicine will be reduced. It would be a huge step backwards.

 

[daylightrobber]

He would be foolish to make himself a hostage to fortune by saying any different. No-one has a crystal ball to enable them to see what the future holds regardless of whether we remain or leave.

So, your boss advises that there is an opportunity for the company on the horizon to make changes to how it operates. He's happy to allow his workers to vote on whether the company should take that opportunity or not, but he has no idea of the outcome of taking the opportunity or whether your job will be secure. How would you vote?

 

[Tubey]

what are you on about. we have devolved parliaments and council elections too but westminster is above. no different to brussels. ofcourse its a superstate.

No, it isn't... It's a Europe of nations, not a federal superstate. Even fervent anti-EU people don't call it a superstate, because it isn't, and that would be stupid.

 

[Tigger]

If we stay, will the number of jobs created by being in cover the amount of possible unskilled immigrants coming our way? I think not. At least if we are out we can get back to a system where people coming in must bring something to our country and not just huge strain on our healthcare, schools, housing and benefits system. Great post by @Seathestars above, why should an unskilled person from Turkey or Bulgaria have more right than an unskilled African? Both bring the same to the party. It should be up to us who comes in, not a right given to people out of our control.

 

[daylightrobber]

If we stay, will the number of jobs created by being in cover the amount of possible unskilled immigrants coming our way? I think not. At least if we are out we can get back to a system where people coming in must bring something to our country and not just huge strain on our healthcare, schools, housing and benefits system. Great post by @Seathestars above, why should an unskilled person from Turkey or Bulgaria have more right than an unskilled African? Both bring the same to the party. It should be up to us who comes in, not a right given to people out of our control.

What about the freedoms of our citizens to live, work and play across most of Europe without prejudice?

And then there's all the increase red tape resulting from cutting ourselves off from our nearest neighbours. You know the stuff all the Euro-sceptics hate.

 

[davids]

I'm struggling to reconcile a UK stripped of it's sovereignty that is being led like a sheep into a European Federal State and the UK that isn't signed to Schengen and isn't a member of the Eurozone.I'd say the UK should be applauded for managing to be a member of the EU while sidestepping committing to a couple of the key requirements of membership for the rest of the 'club'.