The EU deal

[davids]

If we stay, will the number of jobs created by being in cover the amount of possible unskilled immigrants coming our way? I think not. At least if we are out we can get back to a system where people coming in must bring something to our country and not just huge strain on our healthcare, schools, housing and benefits system. Great post by @Seathestars above, why should an unskilled person from Turkey or Bulgaria have more right than an unskilled African? Both bring the same to the party. It should be up to us who comes in, not a right given to people out of our control.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the uptake of the veg and fruit picking jobs presently the domain of Eastern European Ex-pats (is it just British citizens who are ex-pats and not immigrants?)or will the void be filled by the pensioners returning from sunnier climes? And we seem to have Schrodingers Immigrant again stealing are jobs and taking our benefits!

 

[Tigger]

What about the freedoms of our citizens to live, work and play across most of Europe without prejudice?

And then there's all the increase red tape resulting from cutting ourselves off from our nearest neighbours. You know the stuff all the Euro-sceptics hate.

Do you think it will stop the relatively few people going to live and work across Europe from the Uk doing so? Doubt it and even if it does its a small sacrifice to make to ensure our own countries identity and wellbeing is not lost.

 

[daylightrobber]

I'm struggling to reconcile a UK stripped of it's sovereignty that is being led like a sheep into a European Federal State and the UK that isn't signed to Schengen and isn't a member of the Eurozone.I'd say the UK should be applauded for managing to be a member of the EU while sidestepping committing to a couple of the key requirements of membership for the rest of the 'club'.

It's completely irrational, like so many of Leave's arguments.

 

[daylightrobber]

Do you think it will stop the relatively few people going to live and work across Europe from the Uk doing so? Doubt it and even if it does its a small sacrifice to make to ensure our own countries identity and wellbeing is not lost.

I'm sure that the 1.3m UK migrants living in the EU will be happy to hear you want to deny them the freedom of choice in order to protect our countless pizza restaurants and Indian takeaways.

 

[Tigger]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the uptake of the veg and fruit picking jobs presently the domain of Eastern European Ex-pats (is it just British citizens who are ex-pats and not immigrants?)or will the void be filled by the pensioners returning from sunnier climes?

So how did we manage before the huge influx of cheap labour?

 

[davids]

It's completely irrational, like so many of Leave's arguments.

I've seen on another forum Brexiteers arguing that the EU meddles in the economic affairs of it's member states,while at the same time failing to stop the Greek government single handedly ruining it's own,Talk about cake and eating it!

 

[davids]

So how did we manage before the huge influx of cheap labour?

You tell me,how did immigrants take jobs that were already taken?

 

[Tigger]

I'm sure that the 1.3m UK migrants living in the EU will be happy to hear you want to deny them the freedom of choice in order to protect our countless pizza restaurants and Indian takeaways.

Wow. Immigration will always happen but not at the ceiling less rate that we will be exposed to. It needs to be manageable and suit us not open borders. That is all and if you are happy with limitless immigration I respect your views

 

[Durham Toffee]

Whatever happens - with the Scottish referendum and now the EU deal - I would suggest that our country and many others will look very different when we assess their borders and politics in 100 years or so...

 

[davids]

Interesting take on Goves TV appearance.
“I think people in this country have had enough of experts!” - that's what Michael Gove said tonight.

Really? So no more expert opinion on the economy or NHS? Dismiss those health professionals, research scientists, economic bodies, etc? If not experts - then in whom should we put our faith for reliable information and an informed debate? Politicians? Trust yer gut? To suggest that independent experts are bought out or have vested interests other than caring about our country is deeply demeaning. It's the standard playbook of the demagogue to dismiss first the universities, academics, learned bodies. Most pertinently with the NHS's future - we see a Vote Leave campaign hijacking this area and pulling public opinion far out of line with what the health professionals say. Slogans beat measured experience. Is this what guides our policy?

Gove would have us listen to experts less and his own spin more - even though the small political elite are already dominating the broadcast media with claim and counter-claim. The public are not getting at rational balanced debate from those who know what they are talking about... It is to the detriment of debate, our national reputation and our country's future.

 

[davids]

Whatever happens - with the Scottish referendum and now the EU deal - I would suggest that our country and many others will look very different when we assess their borders and politics in 100 years or so...

I'd make that 10....or less maybe.

 

[davids]

 

[Brennan]

Interesting take on Goves TV appearance.
“I think people in this country have had enough of experts!” - that's what Michael Gove said tonight.

Really? So no more expert opinion on the economy or NHS? Dismiss those health professionals, research scientists, economic bodies, etc? If not experts - then in whom should we put our faith for reliable information and an informed debate? Politicians? Trust yer gut? To suggest that independent experts are bought out or have vested interests other than caring about our country is deeply demeaning. It's the standard playbook of the demagogue to dismiss first the universities, academics, learned bodies. Most pertinently with the NHS's future - we see a Vote Leave campaign hijacking this area and pulling public opinion far out of line with what the health professionals say. Slogans beat measured experience. Is this what guides our policy?

Gove would have us listen to experts less and his own spin more - even though the small political elite are already dominating the broadcast media with claim and counter-claim. The public are not getting at rational balanced debate from those who know what they are talking about... It is to the detriment of debate, our national reputation and our country's future.

Great post

 

[SNova]

Interesting take on Goves TV appearance.
“I think people in this country have had enough of experts!” - that's what Michael Gove said tonight.

Really? So no more expert opinion on the economy or NHS? Dismiss those health professionals, research scientists, economic bodies, etc? If not experts - then in whom should we put our faith for reliable information and an informed debate? Politicians? Trust yer gut? To suggest that independent experts are bought out or have vested interests other than caring about our country is deeply demeaning. It's the standard playbook of the demagogue to dismiss first the universities, academics, learned bodies. Most pertinently with the NHS's future - we see a Vote Leave campaign hijacking this area and pulling public opinion far out of line with what the health professionals say. Slogans beat measured experience. Is this what guides our policy?

Gove would have us listen to experts less and his own spin more - even though the small political elite are already dominating the broadcast media with claim and counter-claim. The public are not getting at rational balanced debate from those who know what they are talking about... It is to the detriment of debate, our national reputation and our country's future.

When he says experts he's referring to the globalist elites.

 

[Durham Toffee]

Interesting take on Goves TV appearance.
“I think people in this country have had enough of experts!” - that's what Michael Gove said tonight.

Really? So no more expert opinion on the economy or NHS? Dismiss those health professionals, research scientists, economic bodies, etc? If not experts - then in whom should we put our faith for reliable information and an informed debate? Politicians? Trust yer gut? To suggest that independent experts are bought out or have vested interests other than caring about our country is deeply demeaning. It's the standard playbook of the demagogue to dismiss first the universities, academics, learned bodies. Most pertinently with the NHS's future - we see a Vote Leave campaign hijacking this area and pulling public opinion far out of line with what the health professionals say. Slogans beat measured experience. Is this what guides our policy?

Gove would have us listen to experts less and his own spin more - even though the small political elite are already dominating the broadcast media with claim and counter-claim. The public are not getting at rational balanced debate from those who know what they are talking about... It is to the detriment of debate, our national reputation and our country's future.

I've been listening to the expert ramblings of the DfE for the last three years or so.

They've pretty much ruined education and crippled good teachers with a feeling of apathetic resignation.