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The EU deal

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This is an interesting line,

'The EU has or is negotiating free-trade deals with America, China and India, from which a post-Brexit Britain would be excluded. The EU has 53 such deals. Britain would have to try to replicate them, a huge challenge given its lack of trade negotiators and the length of time even simple trade talks take.'

We'd also have to compete against the EU for our new trading partners. Can see that going well.

This was disproven a couple of weeks back. The deals currently in place we signed as a sovereign country, just like all the other countries signed it. It was not signed between the EU and whoever because the EU is not a Sovereign nation as yet. The legal people have already said that the agreements we have signed will remain in plain whether in or out of the EU.

The deals with the USA, China, India have been going on far longer than GOT has existed and are still not in place. The UK on it's own and not part of a 28 group committee (which wasn't even 28 when talks started, so the goalposts always move) would have easily concluded such deals before now.

In respect of EU competition for trading partners, we will still be competing against France and Germany just as we do today..........
 
I think we'll vote out. It's amazing, but I think it'll happen. There's an awful lot of small-minded, insular thinking "shy voters" out there who will vote against foreigners as much as they will Europe.

We've become a hateful, arrogant little nation over the past 20 years or so, and it's telling through things like this referendum even being close, and odious scum like Boris and Farage actually enjoying mainstream support.

I think your little rant says far more about you than it does about the people who want to regain control of their own country........
 
Of course they will... it's a no brainer. The UK has to trade with the EU, but the EU should trade with the UK. The EU are in the position of power - it's 50% of our trade versus 13% of theirs.

They will have no incentive whatsoever to sweeten the divorce deal, because they know whatever they put on the table we will have to accept. And it would then send a message to any other wantaways that the price simply isn't worth paying to do it. The EU will protect itself, as it has every right to in the event of a Brexit.

As for the corporate elite, they'll be licking their lips at the thought of a Brexit. Why do you think so many rich right wingers want it? They'll make a killing off it, and it'll be the poor and middle classes who will mop it up. Again.

You know what though, on point two, you're sort of right - it wouldn't make sense to drive the UK into recession by essentially closing off the European market. Oh wait, got that mixed up - point remains though eh?
No we don't. So we pay the WTO tariffs and play a game of chicken with them. Let's see who blinks first.
 
Any agreement would require ratification by all member bodies. Whilst Germany, France et al do a lot of trade with Britain, the likes of Romania hardly do any, and us leaving closes the door for their citizens to live and work here. Only takes one state to say no thanks. What's more, the Spanish prime minister recently said that it's hard to see how British expats would remain in Spain should we leave. The idea that all member states are similarly beholden to Britain is a little arrogant.

You're advocating a position based upon next to nothing in terms of certainty of outcome, whether it's future trade deals, the management of EU/British citizens here and abroad, the reaction of Scotland/Wales/Ireland to Brexit, the length of time take to negotiate any subsequent arrangements and so on. And that's even before you look at the very real threat of how other countries in the world will respond to Britain leaving.

That last point is something that is ignored by the leavers. Hollande has the worst ratings of any French President in living memory, with the terrifying Le Pen gaining ground. If Le Pen did get into office, it seems likely that she would push to leave the EU too, leaving Germany as the last remaining huge economy remaining. It's hard to imagine they would shoulder responsibility for leadership on their own.

Add to the mix that much of eastern Europe is still heavily reliant on Russia in terms of energy, and it's not that far fetched to imagine Putin sat there rubbing his hands ready to capitalise on any chaos that ensues to try and snatch back the Soviet Empire from a Europe where the main two military powers (Britain and France) have upped the drawbridge.

Could you say that such a scenario will never happen?
Look how many Spainish people are in the UK working. Do you think they want our government to start deporting all their nationals in retaliation.

It's a nonsense childish argument. Boo hoo we don't like the game so we're going to take our ball and go home. It would be resolved quickly and amicably because if it wasn't it would most likely hasten the total demise of the EU.
 

Muslims are 50% unemployed if they are male and 75% if they are women across Europe. How exactly do you work out that they are putting the most in and taking the least out. If you had of read the previous comments it was clear it was this kind of migration I was talking about.

Grouping all migrants together isn't fair. That's why we need a points based system.

So we can boot the 50% or so that are working out of the country?

No, this referendum has turned into a withchunt against migrants - nobody on the leave side can honestly predict the economy projections if we do infact leave.
 
i also saw someone else on FB suggesting that old people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Would that be the old people that have made the country what it is today, have paid their tax for 40 odd years, fought in wars and whose children are the doctors etc of today?

Is ageism acceptable then? Some seem to think so.
 
Any agreement would require ratification by all member bodies. Whilst Germany, France et al do a lot of trade with Britain, the likes of Romania hardly do any, and us leaving closes the door for their citizens to live and work here. Only takes one state to say no thanks. What's more, the Spanish prime minister recently said that it's hard to see how British expats would remain in Spain should we leave. The idea that all member states are similarly beholden to Britain is a little arrogant.
Threaten to slap a 100% tax increase on package holidays and recognise an independate state of Catalonia and they'll pipe right down.
 
So we can boot the 50% or so that are working out of the country?

No, this referendum has turned into a withchunt against migrants - nobody on the leave side can honestly predict the economy projections if we do infact leave.
Once they are in they are in. The statistics don't lie. It costs us a fortune and that's money being taken from our pockets.

And they don't even like us. Madness.
 
Any agreement would require ratification by all member bodies. Whilst Germany, France et al do a lot of trade with Britain, the likes of Romania hardly do any, and us leaving closes the door for their citizens to live and work here. Only takes one state to say no thanks. What's more, the Spanish prime minister recently said that it's hard to see how British expats would remain in Spain should we leave. The idea that all member states are similarly beholden to Britain is a little arrogant.

You're advocating a position based upon next to nothing in terms of certainty of outcome, whether it's future trade deals, the management of EU/British citizens here and abroad, the reaction of Scotland/Wales/Ireland to Brexit, the length of time take to negotiate any subsequent arrangements and so on. And that's even before you look at the very real threat of how other countries in the world will respond to Britain leaving.

That last point is something that is ignored by the leavers. Hollande has the worst ratings of any French President in living memory, with the terrifying Le Pen gaining ground. If Le Pen did get into office, it seems likely that she would push to leave the EU too, leaving Germany as the last remaining huge economy remaining. It's hard to imagine they would shoulder responsibility for leadership on their own.

Add to the mix that much of eastern Europe is still heavily reliant on Russia in terms of energy, and it's not that far fetched to imagine Putin sat there rubbing his hands ready to capitalise on any chaos that ensues to try and snatch back the Soviet Empire from a Europe where the main two military powers (Britain and France) have upped the drawbridge.

Could you say that such a scenario will never happen?

Why would that be a concern for the UK.....
 

Plenty of evidence in this thread to back up @Tubey 's observations.

It is what it is - you don't need evidence when the lynchpin of Brexit, Nigel Farage, pretty much exclusively plays to an audience based on fears of immigrants.

And he's popular for it. If people weren't bigoted towards foreigners, Farage wouldn't have the platform he has, as he wouldn't have support for his views - it's that simple, and beyond dispute.
 

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