Except this ponzi scheme only works for the last ones to enter.
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The EU deal
- Thread starter davek
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daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
You need to get your stories straight guys. Who is it? Germany, or Croatia? (or Mayotte even?)Except this ponzi scheme only works for the last ones to enter.
Huh? We were talking about Germany.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory
So even for those who support the leftwing case for Brexit, it is sensible to argue: not now. The time to confront Europe over a leftwing agenda is when you have a Labour government, and the EU is resisting it.
He's a weird one Paul Mason. He has seen the beast close up and has made that argument plus he must know that the people will never be given the opportunity again. It simply won't be allowed. Our political class will never make that mistake again.
So even for those who support the leftwing case for Brexit, it is sensible to argue: not now. The time to confront Europe over a leftwing agenda is when you have a Labour government, and the EU is resisting it.
He's a weird one Paul Mason. He has seen the beast close up and has made that argument plus he must know that the people will never be given the opportunity again. It simply won't be allowed. Our political class will never make that mistake again.
Yid4life
Player Valuation: £35m
As I said above, www.tusc.org.uk gives a far left Brexit view along with the more conventially socialist www.labourleave.org.
Some good reasons there to vote Leave.
I wish people would read this - and at least try to understand it - before voting out because of "dem der foreigners".
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...referendum-britains-eu-membership-if-he-loses
It'd be the equivalent of punching yourself in the face for no reason if we do.
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...referendum-britains-eu-membership-if-he-loses
It'd be the equivalent of punching yourself in the face for no reason if we do.
daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
Apologies - I thought you were talking about the EU as a whole. Easy mistake to make when the immigrants into EU countries such as Germany and the UK tend to be the ones taking the least out, compared to what they put in.
daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
This is an interesting line,
'The EU has or is negotiating free-trade deals with America, China and India, from which a post-Brexit Britain would be excluded. The EU has 53 such deals. Britain would have to try to replicate them, a huge challenge given its lack of trade negotiators and the length of time even simple trade talks take.'
We'd also have to compete against the EU for our new trading partners. Can see that going well.
I'm genuinely fearful that it's going to be 'Out'. A few polls recently suggesting that it's swaying.
Not only that, we'd have to forge a trade deal with the EU anyway, like Norway, which means we'd have to accept basically the same rules as we currently do. And it'd take a while to do. And 50% of our trade is to the EU ffs.
Why are we even considering this? It would break up the Union, weakening our country, and deteriorate our world standing and in all likelihood plunge us into a long term economic struggle that wouldn't have existed if we had stayed. And for what? So we can say "at least we stopped a few foreigners"?
I genuinely don't get it.
I think we'll vote out. It's amazing, but I think it'll happen. There's an awful lot of small-minded, insular thinking "shy voters" out there who will vote against foreigners as much as they will Europe.
We've become a hateful, arrogant little nation over the past 20 years or so, and it's telling through things like this referendum even being close, and odious scum like Boris and Farage actually enjoying mainstream support.
Ratkiller
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Left trade unions issue joint statement calling for EU exit on June 23rd
Last week three trade unions representing over 120,000 workers - the RMT, ASLEF and the BFAWU Bakers Union - issued a joint statement setting out their case for trade unionists to vote for Leave in the EU referendum. The statement reads:
"Many great figures of the labour moment such as Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Bob Crow were firmly against the EU. Millions of Labour voters oppose the EU and we believe a similar number of trade unionists support withdrawal.
"Whatever the result of the EU referendum the labour and trade union movement will continue to fight against injustice and austerity.
The EU is anti-worker and cannot be reformed
"We support a Leave vote in the forthcoming referendum because we believe the EU acts overwhelmingly in the interests of big business and against the interests of workers.
"We note that David Cameron secured only very minor changes to EU rules and believe this demonstrates that there is little hope of reforming the EU.
The myth of the EU and workers' rights
"It's a myth that the EU has won workers' rights and protections for workers. Nearly all the laws that protect workers in Britain are UK laws which have been won by the struggles and campaigns of the British trade union and labour movement.
"In fact, the EU and its European Court of Justice have accelerated their policy agenda which attacks trade union rights, job protections and wages.
Defend our NHS and progressive legislation
"The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade agreement being negotiated between the EU and the United States will promote big business at the expense of sovereign governments and their organisations including our NHS.
"Environmental regulations, employment rights, food safety, privacy laws and many other safeguards will also be secondary to the right of corporations to make even bigger profits.
The threat to democracy and from the far right
"The majority of the laws which affect our lives are now made in the EU and not the UK. This is a major problem because a distant link between law makers and the electorate creates a vacuum which could be exploited by the far right.
"Big decisions such as TTIP are being made with very little regard for democratic oversight and cannot be reversed at the ballot box.
Internationalism not isolationism
"We are internationalists. We believe workers throughout the world, in Britain, America and Asia, as well as Europe, have more in common with each other than the heads of big business in their own countries. Out of the EU and into the world.
No fortress Britain. No Fortress Europe
"Unlike UKIP and others we don't believe Britain should be an island unto itself. Our country, and indeed many countries, are nations of immigrants. We want everyone to get a fair rate for the job and everyone to have the same rights at work.
"We don't support fortress Britain and so we don't support fortress Europe. We profoundly regret that children and families fleeing poverty, persecution and war not being allowed into Europe.
"The challenge we need to address is not the distribution of people around the world it is the distribution of wealth and resources. There is enough wealth for everyone's needs".
The RMT is a key component part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC), having had official representatives of the union on the TUSC national steering committee since an AGM decision in 2012. ASLEF and the Bakers Union are affiliated to the Labour Party.
Makes a mockery of the racists argument the remains are so fond of.
Ratkiller
Player Valuation: £2.5m
I'd put Cameron , Osborne and Tony Blair in with your odious scum.
The problem with that article is that it's nonsense. It's another one that basically says we have to leave the EU on their terms and they are going to punish us for leaving.
1. They won't punish us because they don't want to give the impression they are dictatorship keeping countries against their will.
2. They won't punish us because it makes no economic sense to drive the whole of the EU into recession by essentially closing off the British market.
3. The corporate elite won't allow it.
Left trade unions issue joint statement calling for EU exit on June 23rd
Last week three trade unions representing over 120,000 workers - the RMT, ASLEF and the BFAWU Bakers Union - issued a joint statement setting out their case for trade unionists to vote for Leave in the EU referendum. The statement reads:
"Many great figures of the labour moment such as Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Bob Crow were firmly against the EU. Millions of Labour voters oppose the EU and we believe a similar number of trade unionists support withdrawal.
"Whatever the result of the EU referendum the labour and trade union movement will continue to fight against injustice and austerity.
The EU is anti-worker and cannot be reformed
"We support a Leave vote in the forthcoming referendum because we believe the EU acts overwhelmingly in the interests of big business and against the interests of workers.
"We note that David Cameron secured only very minor changes to EU rules and believe this demonstrates that there is little hope of reforming the EU.
The myth of the EU and workers' rights
"It's a myth that the EU has won workers' rights and protections for workers. Nearly all the laws that protect workers in Britain are UK laws which have been won by the struggles and campaigns of the British trade union and labour movement.
"In fact, the EU and its European Court of Justice have accelerated their policy agenda which attacks trade union rights, job protections and wages.
Defend our NHS and progressive legislation
"The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade agreement being negotiated between the EU and the United States will promote big business at the expense of sovereign governments and their organisations including our NHS.
"Environmental regulations, employment rights, food safety, privacy laws and many other safeguards will also be secondary to the right of corporations to make even bigger profits.
The threat to democracy and from the far right
"The majority of the laws which affect our lives are now made in the EU and not the UK. This is a major problem because a distant link between law makers and the electorate creates a vacuum which could be exploited by the far right.
"Big decisions such as TTIP are being made with very little regard for democratic oversight and cannot be reversed at the ballot box.
Internationalism not isolationism
"We are internationalists. We believe workers throughout the world, in Britain, America and Asia, as well as Europe, have more in common with each other than the heads of big business in their own countries. Out of the EU and into the world.
No fortress Britain. No Fortress Europe
"Unlike UKIP and others we don't believe Britain should be an island unto itself. Our country, and indeed many countries, are nations of immigrants. We want everyone to get a fair rate for the job and everyone to have the same rights at work.
"We don't support fortress Britain and so we don't support fortress Europe. We profoundly regret that children and families fleeing poverty, persecution and war not being allowed into Europe.
"The challenge we need to address is not the distribution of people around the world it is the distribution of wealth and resources. There is enough wealth for everyone's needs".
The RMT is a key component part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC), having had official representatives of the union on the TUSC national steering committee since an AGM decision in 2012. ASLEF and the Bakers Union are affiliated to the Labour Party.
Makes a mockery of the racists argument the remains are so fond of.
Obviously not everyone voting Leave is a racist or a bigot - but let's not pretend a good portion of them aren't. They certainly are.
And again, what you see from what you've just posted is a load of unsubstantiated rhetoric. Defend our NHS from what exactly? You do know the UK government is complicit in TTIP, right, and there's broad mainstream support for it, so given the choice we'd politically go for it anyway?
Labours stance:
"We support the principles behind the negotiations on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership Treaty (TTIP). We will hold the European Commission to account on issues of concern, including the impact on public services and the Investor to State Dispute Settlement Mechanism. And we will ensure the NHS is protected from the TTIP treaty."
Conservatives:
"We will push for freer global trade, concluding major trade deals with the US, India and Japan and reinvigorating the World Trade Organisation."
Lib Dems:
"We will support negotiations at the World Trade Organisation as well as an ambitious Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) between the EU and the USA, which could bring benefits of up to £10 billion a year to the British economy."
Everything else in that text is just a load of buzzwords. What is 'Fortress Britain'? What is the 'threat to democracy from the far right' that is exclusively the domain of being in Europe?
Meanwhile, everything arguing for Remain is substantiated with impact studies.
Last thing - look at the fundamental contradiction. If we apparently have no sovereignty and need to leave the EU to make our own decisions, then how exactly have "nearly all the laws that protect workers in Britain are UK laws"?
The concept of sovereignty is completely over-baked - we already have it. Obviously.
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